Featured A study of the "Revelation" - date & significance, then & now

An early date is possible, though unlikely for reasons already given.

That seems to be a rather despairing suggestion. Is there any real evidence for it?

This is not the case. Naos is translated 'temple' 45 times in the NT, as once as 'shrine' (1 Corinthians 19:24). Hieros is translated 'temple' 71 times, all but one of them in the Gospels or Acts. Naos is repeatedly used figuratively (eg. John 2:19-21; 1 Corinthians 3:16 etc.).

This simply isn't so. Consider Revelation 3:12. How could anyone be a literal pillar in a literal temple? And if anyone could, it wouldn't have lasted very long because Preterism has the temple being destroyed just a few years after the book was written. I don't consider that there is a single reference to the Temple of Jesus' day in Revelation.

The Lord Jesus was asked at least two questions, so it would be surprising if He only gave one answer.

Why would you think that since the Book of Revelation was specifically written to Gentile churches in Asia Minor? And as for the end of the Jews' world, that did not come until 60 years later after the Bar Kochba revolt when Jerusalem was renamed Aelius Hadrianus and Jews were banned from going within 50 miles of it. And as you know, the Jews are still with us today. And why do you think the churches in Corinth, Philippi and Thessalonika were 'eagerly awaiting' the Return of Christ?

So we should junk the Book of Revelation, should we, since it has nothing tom sat to Christians today? On the contrary, properly understood, Revelation helps us make sense of this present world and gives us great comfort in troubling times.

 

But Dispensationalism is not Zionist. (Don't believe what you read on the Internet. ) It does not teach that we must have a political solution for Israel, but that God Himself has a solution for Israel.

If you want a political theology, look to dominion theology (based firmly on covenant theology). Dispensationalism is not political.

1. Disp. is doxological in basis, not soteriological nor even Christological, and certainly not anthropological.

2. Every dispensation has a God-given task. The one for this dispensation is not to get Israel back in the land. That is God's job (doxological), not man's (anthropological). The task for us now, in this dispensation, is to "believe in Christ and walk with Christ" (Ryrie, Dispensationalism, p. 62). (Some of my students put the Great Commission on the final, and I allowed that, of course.)

3. It is God who fulfills prophecy. Man cannot do that. Therefore, what is the point of lobbying for Israel? It doesn't accomplish God's purpose in this age.

4. In the dispensational prophecy, Israel goes into the land in belief in the first half of the tribulation. Israel is not currently in the land in belief. It may be completely destroyed by those Arab nations hungering for its oblivion, and that would not stop God's prophecy from fulfillment in the slightest.

 

This is correct. I spent much time at University studying Roman historians like Tacitus and Suetonius, and the name they gave to Nero was.........Nero. His other adoptive names would have confused him with other members of the Royal family. Never was he called Domitius. I don't believe that Josephus calls him that either.

 

Sorry, that could be historical premil, rather than dispensational. In fact, one can hold to a mid-trib or pre-wrath or post trib rapture and still be dispensational.

 

Actually Revelation was written specifically to the Jews as well. Considering the content of the message of the book I am surprised why anyone would think otherwise. Certainly not denying th immediate application to the Gentiles, however. Nor important application for us.

The end of Jew's world ("age") was certainly in view. In light of the context and of cross-references this refers to the "elements" of the Jewish system. All of that came to a fiery end with the burning of the Temple, the crucial center of their worship. Without the Temple - the altar and all that pertains to it, and all who ministered on it - there is no way for them to approach God - according to the Law. Ever since the Parousia there has been only one priesthood, the Melchizedekan one of Christ. The Levitical had become forever deprecated, made obsolete.

What happened with Bar Kochba was irrelevant as far as the topic here is concerned. It was just an unfortunate event of Christ-denying Jews having their faulty eschatology bloodily corrected.

 

First of all, you've not proven any of this. The absolute bedrock teaching of dispensationalism is literally interpreting the Bible and obeying it. But frankly, I doubt if you know much of anything about the theology, judging from what you've written.

I have you on ignore, but others have been interacting and I noticed it. You are so vicious against us it is hard to believe.

I'm a dispensationalist and a college teacher of it. You have said that we (in the third person) are satanic and heretical. Do you have the guts to say that right now, to me here on the BB, not in the third person? Am I satanic and heretical and un-Biblical?

 

Actually it doesn't.

 

Nothing about this post is true.

 

You know, you preterists (including Covenanter) keep railing against dispensationalism, sometimes violently. But almost none of you have said what you oppose. You can oppose Zionism if you want, but that really has nothing to do with dispensationalism. Asterisktom opposes the literalism of dispensationalism, but then you have to oppose that in general, because there are other theologies that use a literal hermeneutic.

Frankly, as much as you oppose it, I don't think you guys know much of anything about real dispensational theology, judging by what I've seen on this thread and previously on the BB. As my signature says, "You cannot teach some people anything because they already know so much that is not so."--J. B. Gambrell, Texas preacher.

 

Yes but be prepared to be challenged upon your own "hermeneutic" as it is an admitted essential to your debate

So we therefore must continue on with the presumption that it was written before AD 70?

HankD

 

...and serve him day and night in his temple:

In your view C what is the location of the temple?

Thanks.

HankD

 

Actually, you agreed with someone else's negative comment.

As for the whole book of Revelation, I have 22 lessons on it. No offense, but I really don't see how you can cover the book on just one thread, especially here where the forums are for debate.

 

It needs to have the Second Coming has already happened, heresy!

 

True, but the left behind has pre trib rapture!