Featured A study of the "Revelation" - date & significance, then & now

I am interested in this, as thought that only Dispy saw a pre trib rapture, as historical premil see it and second coming as same event. correct?

 

the Lord always fulfilled His prophecy in a literal manner, correct?

 

No. The second coming had already occurred.

 

Read my post for content, not ammunition. You conveniently left out my next sentence that it certainly applied to Gentiles as well . And then faulted me for a misquoted post.

 

What I was disagreeing with specifically was your statement that Revelation was written 'to Jews as well.' It was not; it was written to churches which may or may not have included Jewish Christians. But I disagree with the rest of your post as well if that makes you feel better. I just lacked the energy to address it. But here you are:

I disagree. The Jewish rabbinate continued after AD 70 as did the synagogue system. The hatred against Christians did not end, but increased, with curses upon Christians included in the prayers from around AD 80. And as we all know, the Jews continue with us to this day which is more than can be said for the Roman Empire.

Preterists make far too much of AD 70, terrible as it was. Our Lord's prophecy of Matthew 24:5 was certainly not fulfilled for all time in that year, for in 132, Simon Bar Kochba- 'Son of the Star'- claimed and was believed to be the fulfilment of Numbers 24:17. After his defeat and execution, so many rabbis were executed that it was almost impossible to keep up the rabbinic succession and circumcision was banned until the end of Hadrian's reign. The very name Jerusalem was abolished until the reign of Constantine, almost 200 years later. Before that, in Trajan's reign there was a major Jewish revolt in Libya, Cyrene and Egypt, where they hoped to set up a Jewish state. If the age of the Jews was over in AD 70, nobody told the Jews.

 

Yes. Hard for preterists and others who like "spiritual interpretation" to handle that, but it's true.

 

First of all, I would say that last quote could be used for you as well.

Second,"you preterists" needs addressing. It is as if all preterists are alike. We are not alike. There are some who call themselves that who deny the deity of Christ, the Incarnation, etc. It is a wide spectrum. But so is dispensationalism. It would, likewise, be rude of me to say "you dispensationalists". You are all different. So why do we not deal with specifics instead of broad-brushing? I said nothing in my post to warrant this response of yours.

 

The issue is not what the Jews did in their misguided post AD 70 worship. The issue is God's perspective. The Bible is written from that perspective. Christ's warning on the end of the age, and all the other passages of the passing of that age had to do with God-appointed worship. Sure, there was continued Jewish religious activity. But it had no prophetical significance.

Somebody did tell the Jews. Not the exact date, but the signs accompanying the event. It is all right there in Matthew 25. All of the other things you mentioned are beyond he scope of the prophecy. A careful reading of Matthew 25 constrains us to see all of this in a 1st century setting. For instance, just to mention one point, v. 21 speaks of not having to flee on the Sabbath. We know that Sabbath observance was bound up with he Law. But without the Temple - not the synagogue - there cannot be total Law observance. So observing the Sabbath likewise is no longer the issue - in God's eyes. He who observes the law is required to observe all of it, James 2:10, Gal. 5:3. "All of it" requires a Temple and Levitical priesthood.

 

kyredneck said: ↑
"The late date theory for the writing of Revelation is a house of cards that won't bear scrutiny:"

Can we agree that Philip Schaff knows something about Church History? He, in the course of writing his excellent 8 volume set on that subject, came to change his position on the dating of Revelation to earlier than AD 70.

Was he also absurd? He certainly was no Preterist. BTW, it was going through this very set of books that I began to question that later date for Revelation. And this was long before I became a Preterist.

In my memory - I don't have the set here in China - I think he deals with all or most of the quotes you brought up. There were not such iron-clad proof for a later date at all.

 

Can you specify?

 

Oh, DUH. Thanks!

 

I'm pretty sure I know more about preterism than you know about dispensationalism. (How many varieties of dispensationalism are there, and what are they, hmm?) I've actually had to do research and lecture on preterism.

I will say that, unlike most of the preterists on the BB, you've been a gentleman in our discussions, as much as we disagree. Some of your fellow preterists are extremely nasty.

 

These verses in Hebrews cannot refer to the locale you are attempting to reference

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

...and serve him day and night in his temple:

HankD

 

Like I said, a house of cards.

And you know that how?

Irenaeus! Like I said, the late date theory is a house of cards that won’t stand scrutiny:

“Irenaeus said of the age of Jesus, “but the age of 30 years is the first of a young man’s mind, and that it reaches even to the fortieth year, everyone will allow: but after the fortieth and fiftieth year, it begins to verge towards elder age: which our Lord was when He taught, as the Gospel and all the Elders witness…” (Quoted in Before Jerusalem Fell, Kenneth L. Gentry, p. 63) Can we trust the testimony of a man that says Jesus taught for 15 years and was fifty years old when he died? Yet, it is largely his testimony alone, for the latter date!”..."

When Was The Book of Revelation Written?
(a really informative piece, you should read it)

Only in your imagination.

 

And what is it you're attempting to 'shoe horn' into the text by reading 'thousands of years and still waiting' into these plain words?:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20