Featured Is Acts 17:30 only the elect or the entire human race?

I am still looking for the word "allow" in Ac. 4. 27, 28. I think your issue seems to be a lack of understanding of the nature of second causes. The following is taken from the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith and sets forth what I believe the scriptures to teach on this issue:

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree. Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! -Ro. 11.33

 

No, this discussion asks that you exegete Acts 17 by observing the passage before stating interpretation. What has happened is purely interpretation without any observation of Acts 17.

 

All humanity is destined to hell, except by God's grace, which is predestined to those whom the Father chose from before the foundation of the world. No one can gloat about being chosen. One can only be in amazed awe at the grace God chose to give to one filthy rag.

 

Remember, exegesis ain't some ppl's strongsuit.

 

You just proved my point.

HankD

 

How so?

We're still waiting for you to observe Acts 17 and let God's word speak for itself. Please feel free to do so.

Acts of the Apostles 17:16-34
[16]While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was deeply troubled by all the idols he saw everywhere in the city.
[17]He went to the synagogue to reason with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and he spoke daily in the public square to all who happened to be there.
[18]He also had a debate with some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. When he told them about Jesus and his resurrection, they said, “What’s this babbler trying to say with these strange ideas he’s picked up?” Others said, “He seems to be preaching about some foreign gods.”
[19]Then they took him to the high council of the city. “Come and tell us about this new teaching,” they said.
[20]“You are saying some rather strange things, and we want to know what it’s all about.”
[21](It should be explained that all the Athenians as well as the foreigners in Athens seemed to spend all their time discussing the latest ideas.)
[22]So Paul, standing before the council, addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way,
[23]for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about.
[24]“He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples,
[25]and human hands can’t serve his needs—for he has no needs. He himself gives life and breath to everything, and he satisfies every need.
[26]From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.
[27]“His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us.
[28]For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
[29]And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone.
[30]“God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him.
[31]For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.”
[32]When they heard Paul speak about the resurrection of the dead, some laughed in contempt, but others said, “We want to hear more about this later.”
[33]That ended Paul’s discussion with them,
[34]but some joined him and became believers. Among them were Dionysius, a member of the council, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

 

posts #
11 against ICTHUS - you are condemning God
39 HankD -you cant see, you cant fathom
42 HankD - you are just avoiding reading the Bible
62 HankD - purely interpretation without any observation
65 ????? - exegesis ain't some ppl's strongsuit - SovereignGrace

Yet not one word of exegesis from you yourself.

ad hominem
adverb (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

HankD

 

To whom is Paul speaking in the passage?
What did Paul say he observed while walking around Athens?
What does the statute to the Unknown God represent, according to Paul?
Observe and then tell us how verse 30 is fitting into Paul's presentation to the Athenians. This isn't hard, but it does require us to place our bias and presuppositions away and let the text direct our thinking.
You are trying to make it about you, but it's not. It's about trying to understand the passage so we can see what God is saying.

 

I'm a Calvinist here. Acts 17:30 is about the entire human race. God calls all who hear the gospel to repent and believe.


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posts #
11 against ICTHUS - you are condemning God
39 HankD -you cant see, you cant fathom
42 HankD - you are just avoiding reading the Bible
62 HankD - purely interpretation without any observation
65 ????? - exegesis ain't some ppl's strongsuit - SovereignGrace
69 HankD - You are trying to make it about you, but its not

You, you, you...

Yet not one word of exegesis from you yourself.

ad hominem
adverb (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

HankD

 

You are trying to deflect. I get it. You don't want to observe the passage, you just want to share your opinion regarding free will. Keep deflecting if you wish.

 

OK.

HankD

 

But Ben it doesn't say "all who hear everywhere to repent". There is no mention of "ears to hear".

While it might implicitly carry that thought it doesn't explicitly say that.

HankD

 

Here you go Hank.
Acts of the Apostles 17:16-25 Observations in parenthesis)
[16]While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was deeply troubled by all the idols he saw everywhere in the city.
(Paul was in Athens.
Paul was deeply troubled by seeing many idols.)

[17]He went to the synagogue to reason with the Jews and the God-fearing Gentiles, and he spoke daily in the public square to all who happened to be there.
(Paul went to a Synagogue in Athens. There were Jews in Athens. There were non-Jews in Athens who feared Yahweh. Paul spoke daily in the public square to anyone who came to the square.)

[18]He also had a debate with some of the Epicurean and Stoic philosophers. When he told them about Jesus and his resurrection, they said, “What’s this babbler trying to say with these strange ideas he’s picked up?” Others said, “He seems to be preaching about some foreign gods.”
( Paul debated in the square with Epicureans and Stoics. They thought Paul was a babble because he spoke of things they had never heard of. Other thought Paul was talking about a God that was foreign to Athens.)

[19]Then they took him to the high council of the city. “Come and tell us about this new teaching,” they said.
(Paul was taken to the high council in the city of Athens. The high council asked Paul to tell them about Paul's teaching, which was new to them.)

[20]“You are saying some rather strange things, and we want to know what it’s all about.”
(Paul's message was strange to the high council. They had never heard it before.)

[21](It should be explained that all the Athenians as well as the foreigners in Athens seemed to spend all their time discussing the latest ideas.)
(The writer of Acts, Luke, adds a comment. Athenians talked about and discussed new ideas daily.)

[22]So Paul, standing before the council, addressed them as follows: “Men of Athens, I notice that you are very religious in every way,
(Paul speaks to the council. Paul notes that they are very religious.)

[23]for as I was walking along I saw your many shrines. And one of your altars had this inscription on it: ‘To an Unknown God.’ This God, whom you worship without knowing, is the one I’m telling you about.
(Paul walked among the shrines in Athens. One shrine was to an unknown God. Paul says he is speaking about the unknown God.)

[24]“He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since he is Lord of heaven and earth, he doesn’t live in man-made temples,
(The unknown God made everything. The unknown God is King of Heaven and Earth. The unknown God does not live in a man-made temple.)

 

Observations Acts 17:26-34
[26]From one man he created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand when they should rise and fall, and he determined their boundaries.
(The unknown God created all nations from one man. The unknown God decides which nations rise and fall. The unknown God determines the nations boundaries.)

[27]“His purpose was for the nations to seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him—though he is not far from any one of us.
(The unknown God's purpose is for nations to seek God. Perhaps a nation may feel it's way toward God and find God. God is not far from any person.)

[28]For in him we live and move and exist. As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’
(In the unknown God we live and exist. Some poets in Athens called the humans the offspring of the unknown God.)

[29]And since this is true, we shouldn’t think of God as an idol designed by craftsmen from gold or silver or stone.
(Paul says we are offspring of God. We should not think of the unknown God as an idol.)

[30]“God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him.
(The unknown God overlooked human ignorance in earlier times. Now, the unknown God commands everyone everywhere to turn away from their sins and turn to the Unknown God.)

[31]For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.”
(The unknown God has set a day to judge the world. The unknown God has appointed a man to judge justly. The unknown God proves who the man is who will justly judge by raising that man from the dead.)
[32]When they heard Paul speak about the resurrection of the dead, some laughed in contempt, but others said, “We want to hear more about this later.”
(Paul's talk about the resurrection of the dead made some people laugh in derision. Others wanted to hear more at a different time.)
[33]That ended Paul’s discussion with them,
(The discussion ended.)

[34]but some joined him and became believers. Among them were Dionysius, a member of the council, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.
(Some who had heard Paul believed his words. Dionysius, a member of the high council believed. A woman named Damaris believed. Others believed.

 

Thanks MennoSota.

what then is your take on Acts 17:30?

HankD

 

How is sovereign grace incompatible with Ac. 17.30?

 

Paul is making a general point to the Athenians about the Unknown God's demand that everyone turn from sin and idol worship to worshipping the unknown God. The unknown God has a man who will rightly and jusly judge the Athenians. God proved this by raising the man from the dead.

Paul was then cut off from exponding the rest of his thesis.

Luke was not writing this down to develop a point regarding free will or God's choosing. Luke was recording Paul's speech that was cut short. It would not be wise to attempt to use this verse as the cornerstone verse for universalism or free will.

 

Not wise? I don't know M, that's easier said than proven.

Can Almighty God give a man (saved or lost) the power of free will?

If not why not?

Just curious.