The bad theology on this board

hello, brother! Please help me understand what Lordship salvation teaches. Thanks in advance for your response!

 

I'm just going to be straight up and honest, it's brothers like you that promote LS that has people flabbergasted. Not sure how you can SEE that the board has bad theology while you have two four by fours in your eye sockets.

 

Uh, Evan brother, you started this with a fault finding O/P.

HankD

 

Can you back up that with any actual evidence?

 

Not really. You have bad doctrine. You get upset when that is pointed out.

 

It seems just as many have stated here already, that the main disagreement is that Jesus IS Lord, not made to be Lord, or at least that's the sore point in many of the debates I read. I haven't read any books on the topic, just a lot of online arguments. I'm not taking sides but rather an observation at this point.

 

It is the biblical doctrine that when we have a true heart for Christ we want Him, His ways, His will, His plan for our lives. You don't need a discipleship class for that we can see that with Zacchaeus. He immediately spoke his intentions to do what he knew was right. He was repentant of his old lifestyle. Does this mean he was perfect or even had full knowledge of all things he he needed to repent of? Of course not. However, the line gets drawn at what we do know. What current sin do we have knowledge of in our lives? Zacchaeus addressed exactly what he knew of.

When Jesus is Lord (the act of being willing to submit to His rule) of our lives we want to be in that submission. When we have been born again or regenerated our hearts lean toward Christ rather than away from Him. That leaning toward does not require a discipleship class it comes with repentance and salvation.F

Too many people who call themselves Christians want to escape the final judgement so they give a mental assent to the fact that Christ died for them. They want to rely on that to escape the judgment of God but they have no real heart leaning toward Christ. They still are not willing to submit any part of their lives to Him. The rich young ruler is a clear example of that. He walked away sorrowful.

So the line is drawn at three things:

1. Repenting of the things you know you need to repent of. (Matthew 3:8; Luke 15:17; James 4:8)
2. Having a heart that leans toward God and desiring His best. (Acts 3:19)
3. Being willing to submit to His authority. (Matthew 12:50; Romans 8:7)

Now further sanctification or growing in the Lord does not produce repentance nor does it produce submission. It cannot for that is not its nature. It is not until we repent and submit that we can begin to grow. We cannot be discipled if we have not submitted our will to God. There were some disciples that said some of what Jesus taught we to "hard" to hear. Scripture says at that point they did not follow after Him anymore (John 6:60).

Now your question is one of derision and most of the time I do not answer such questions. Here in this case I have.

Further, someone else posted the idea that one cannot make Christ Lord because He is always Lord. This is both correct and incorrect at the same time. Christ is Lord, as God is sovereign, but that is not the only context in which that phrase is used. We need to be more honest about its use. The other context is when we intentionally submit to God. We can choose, here and right now, to submit or not to submit. We can choose to repent or not to repent. Failure to do those things means we have not made Him Lord over our lives in our minds. It means we have not leaned toward Him and are still turning our backs to Him.

I hope this helps you gain a new and correct perspective on this issue.

 

Personally I never had to "make" Jesus Christ Lord of my life.

While far from perfect, I never doubted or questioned it.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

HankD

 

Thank you for your response, brother! My question was sincere and not one of "derision". I'm not good at typing attitude/tone into my responses. Thank you again, may the Lord Richly bless you!

 

Here is a quote from John MacArthur's book, "Hard to Believe":

Don’t believe anyone who says it’s easy to become a Christian. Salvation for sinners cost God His own Son; it cost God’s Son His life, and it’ll cost you the same thing. Salvation isn’t gained by reciting mere words. Saving faith transforms the heart, and that in turn transforms behavior. Faith’s fruit is seen in actions, not intentions. There’s no room for passive spectators: words without actions are empty and futile. Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings. The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic.

"Don't believe anyone who says it's easy to become a Christian"

Matt. 11:28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

It is easy to become a Christian. Justification is instantaneous and is a matter of repentance as God enables you. However, it's hard to live a sanctified life.


"The life we live, not the words we speak, reveals whether our faith is authentic."

Sure seems like the fruit inspection and a works based salvation to me.

 

"Remember that what John saw in his vision of judgment was a Book of Life, not a book of Words or Book of Intellectual Musings."

And here we have a habit of MacArthur that JonC has pointed out--building strawmen and then "winning" the argument.

 

If there was a time in your life when He was not Lord and you refused to submit to Him and then you repented and decided to submit to him that according to how that phrase is used you at that moment made Him Lord of your life. (not to be contrary)

 

I see your Mt 11.....and raise to you lk6 and Titus 1...
Lk6:46-49

Titus 1:16

 

MacArthur contends "becoming a Christian is hard."
No, it isn't.

 

He has ALWAYS been my Lord. It NEVER depended on me .

HankD

 

Hello ITL,
IN the quote you offered it looked like he was speaking about the work of the cross being a hard work,the suffering unto death, the being made sin for us...
I think in reference to belief I think you will find him saying and quite properly that Jesus taught we are to count the cost....Lk14:26-35.
No one wants a false convert, a false professor....we want people to know Jesus as He is.....Lord of all.

 

Sure seems like the fruit inspection and a works based salvation to me.

Jesus said, "By their fruits shall ye know them."
Fruit inspection seems okay, and well short of espousing works salvation. It's when we try to be plant scientists that we go beyond scripture.