Spiritual interpretation ....pt.7

[Yeshua1]

Yes, of course they refer to the Jews, but the curses neither began nor ended in AD 70. Persecution of the Jews went on all through history and culminated in the Holocaust. There are still plenty of people (mostly Moslems) who would happily continue the oppression given the chance.

The curse over creation itself still remains until the Second Advent....

 

[Covenanter]

I'd never heard of Alfred Edersheim until now.
Reference to Wickipedia shows him to have been a Messianic Jew before such a term was invented.

Thanks for a useful reference.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'd never heard of Alfred Edersheim until now.
Reference to Wickipedia shows him to have been a Messianic Jew before such a term was invented.

Thanks for a useful reference.

He did some very good reference works on the Judaism and history and customs at time of Christ...

 

[Covenanter]

Yes, of course they refer to the Jews, but the curses neither began nor ended in AD 70. Persecution of the Jews went on all through history and culminated in the Holocaust. There are still plenty of people (mostly Moslems) who would happily continue the oppression given the chance.

Did the specific curse on this generation end with the destruction? As Paul wrote:

1 Thes. 2:16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.​

Many thousands of Jews were converted before the destruction, as recorded in Acts. Those who rejected the Gospel were declared uncircumcised. Acts 7:51 The old covenant was finished.

It is doubtful whether the Ashkenazi European Jews who suffered the brunt of "Christian" persecution are/were related to Abraham or are Semitic. Genesis 10:2-3 Whether they have any claim to the promised land is doubtful.

The Gospel proclamation began at Jerusalem, & extended to all nations - as promised to the Patriarchs. Those calling themselves Jews are included in that call.

 

[kyredneck]

I'd never heard of Alfred Edersheim until now.
Reference to Wickipedia shows him to have been a Messianic Jew before such a term was invented.

Thanks for a useful reference.

His work is a very good tool to have in your chest. But he's a lot like Gill in that he's windy. Takes ten thousand words to say what one thousand would.

IMO, of course.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Did the specific curse on this generation end with the destruction? As Paul wrote:

1 Thes. 2:16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.​

Many thousands of Jews were converted before the destruction, as recorded in Acts. Those who rejected the Gospel were declared uncircumcised. Acts 7:51 The old covenant was finished.

It is doubtful whether the Ashkenazi European Jews who suffered the brunt of "Christian" persecution are/were related to Abraham or are Semitic. Genesis 10:2-3 Whether they have any claim to the promised land is doubtful.

The Gospel proclamation began at Jerusalem, & extended to all nations - as promised to the Patriarchs. Those calling themselves Jews are included in that call.

The curses of Leviticus 26 & Deuteronomy 28 do not seem to me to be confined to one time. In each chapter there is the promise that if they repent there will be restoration. Over the years, as you say, many thousands of Jews have trusted in Christ and been saved, Alfred Edersheim being but one. There has been no national repentance that I'm aware of. I by no means exclude the possibility of a mass conversion of the Jews-- certain texts seem to point to it-- but salvation for Jews will come in exactly the same way as salvation for Moslems, Sikhs, Hindus or atheists-- through repentance from sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Yeshua1]

The curses of Leviticus 26 & Deuteronomy 28 do not seem to me to be confined to one time. In each chapter there is the promise that if they repent there will be restoration. Over the years, as you say, many thousands of Jews have trusted in Christ and been saved, Alfred Edersheim being but one. There has been no national repentance that I'm aware of. I by no means exclude the possibility of a mass conversion of the Jews-- certain texts seem to point to it-- but salvation for Jews will come in exactly the same way as salvation for Moslems, Sikhs, Hindus or atheists-- through repentance from sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, and there mass conversion seems to be when Jesus returns and Israel is reborn overnight back to God...

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Yes, and there mass conversion seems to be when Jesus returns and Israel is reborn overnight back to God...

I don't believe so. When the Lord Jesus returns it will be punish the wicked and to reward the righteous (ie. those clothed in the righteousness of Christ). The Day of Grace will then be over. Now is the Day of Salvation. If there is to be a mass conversion of the Jews it will have to be before He returns.

 

[percho]

"It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority"

When were you glorified?:

29 For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
30 and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Ro 8
.

Romans 8:9,1,17

I would saw we are glorified, in Christ, by having been given the Spirit of Christ by which we will be conformed to his image all together at one time and at that moment Christ the Son will be the firstborn among many brethren.

When was the Son glorified by the Father?

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;

When will we as joint heirs inherit that same glory? That hope of glory?

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:Col 1:27 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Rom 8:24,25

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. R8:11
And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.R8:23

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Titus 2:13

 

[percho]

I don't believe so. When the Lord Jesus returns it will be punish the wicked and to reward the righteous (ie. those clothed in the righteousness of Christ). The Day of Grace will then be over. Now is the Day of Salvation. If there is to be a mass conversion of the Jews it will have to be before (?) He returns.

That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Acts 15:17

When is that day of salvation?

 

[Covenanter]

That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Acts 15:17

When is that day of salvation?

Then and Now.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't believe so. When the Lord Jesus returns it will be punish the wicked and to reward the righteous (ie. those clothed in the righteousness of Christ). The Day of Grace will then be over. Now is the Day of Salvation. If there is to be a mass conversion of the Jews it will have to be before He returns.

I was taking this to be the time when all eyes of theirs shall behold him , and mourn over him, and God will turn those jews still living unto Jesus!

 

[Iconoclast]

The curse over creation itself still remains until the Second Advent....

What is discussed here is not creation but the curses listed in deut/ lev......you are ignoring the discussions and the questions once again.....when are these curses to come upon Israel.

 

[Yeshua1]

What is discussed here is not creation but the curses listed in deut/ lev......you are ignoring the discussions and the questions once again.....when are these curses to come upon Israel.

the blessing of God will come upon them in the last days...

 

[Covenanter]

I was taking this to be the time when all eyes of theirs shall behold him , and mourn over him, and God will turn those jews still living unto Jesus!

the blessing of God will come upon them in the last days...

As usual you post without quoting any Scriptural basis for your opinion.

Those assertions come from old covenant prophecy, NOT new covenant prophecy, normally referring, in context, to the exile to Babylon & the return. e.g. Ezec. 36.

But note in that chapter vs 24-28 which is a prophecy of Pentecost when many thousands of Jews & proselytes devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Thousands were saved & baptised. The allusion to water baptism relates to Exo. 24 when the blood of the old covenant was sprinkled on the people on confession of obedience.

You agreed, a few posts back, that prophecy refers to Christ rather than Israel.

The coming, & saving work of Christ was in fulfilment of prophecy. At Pentecost, Peter declared "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" concerning the last days.

Many thousands of Jews from many nations did indeed repent & receive the blessing promised. There was no promise reserved for those who rejected the Messiah, only dreadful judgement.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.​

That judgment took place in AD 70.

The believing Jews reluctantly accepted Gentile believers as fellow believers. Acts 15. As they were rejected by the unbelieving Jewish community & Synagogues, their Jewish customs would soon lose significance, so in a generation or two the blessed & believing Jews would lose their Jewish identity. Not a Gentile church, but a Christian church where all were one.

Gal. 3: 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.​

Jews are welcomed by the Gospel, but not because they claim to be Abraham's seed, but because they come to Jesus in repentance & faith. And waiting for the Messiah is foolish. He came & completed his saving work.

 

[Yeshua1]

As usual you post without quoting any Scriptural basis for your opinion.

Those assertions come from old covenant prophecy, NOT new covenant prophecy, normally referring, in context, to the exile to Babylon & the return. e.g. Ezec. 36.

But note in that chapter vs 24-28 which is a prophecy of Pentecost when many thousands of Jews & proselytes devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Thousands were saved & baptised. The allusion to water baptism relates to Exo. 24 when the blood of the old covenant was sprinkled on the people on confession of obedience.

You agreed, a few posts back, that prophecy refers to Christ rather than Israel.

The coming, & saving work of Christ was in fulfilment of prophecy. At Pentecost, Peter declared "this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel" concerning the last days.

Many thousands of Jews from many nations did indeed repent & receive the blessing promised. There was no promise reserved for those who rejected the Messiah, only dreadful judgement.

Acts 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.​

That judgment took place in AD 70.

The believing Jews reluctantly accepted Gentile believers as fellow believers. Acts 15. As they were rejected by the unbelieving Jewish community & Synagogues, their Jewish customs would soon lose significance, so in a generation or two the blessed & believing Jews would lose their Jewish identity. Not a Gentile church, but a Christian church where all were one.

Gal. 3: 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.​

Jews are welcomed by the Gospel, but not because they claim to be Abraham's seed, but because they come to Jesus in repentance & faith. And waiting for the Messiah is foolish. He came & completed his saving work.

The nation of Israel and the jewish people will be reborn again under messiah, as the dry bones will one day put on flesh and be alive again unto God! Ezekiel vision of the dry bones...

 

[Covenanter]

The natiuon of Israel and the jewish people will be reborn again under messiah, as the dry bones will one day put on flesh and be alive again unto God!

As usual you post without quoting any Scriptural basis for your opinion.

Ezek. 37 occurred at Pentecost.

Did you read Ezec 36 before replying?

 

[Yeshua1]

As usual you post without quoting any Scriptural basis for your opinion.

Ezek. 37 occurred at Pentecost.

Did you read Ezec 36 before replying?

That has not yet happened , as Israel was not yet reborn spiritually unto the Lord!

 

[Covenanter]

That has not yet happened , as Israel was not yet reborn spiritually unto the Lord!

God's people are reborn individually, by faith. John makes that very clear in his opening chapter, & Jesus underlines it in conversation with Nicodemus.

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.​

Is Israel a nation or a people?
nation + Israel occurs in 13 verses, only 5 times in a positive sense.
people + Israel occurs in 270 verses.

God's favourite expression for his relationship with his covenant people is: I will be their God, and they shall be my people. It occurs many times in various forms throughout Scripture, including the chapter you referred to:

Eze. 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

and in Revelation 21:

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.​

The expression "my people" occurs in 217 verses.

 

[Iconoclast]

There was a new Covenant established with death of Jesus, and His resurrection, but the new world order waiting until he comes again!

That would be the time where there is global peace, just Jesus worshipped, a real one world religion!

The focus of prophecy is Jesus, and the Kingdom will come to whole earth when he institutes that at His Second Coming!

There will be the Kingdom established at His Second Coming, in fulfillment of daniel prophecy of Him destroying all worldly Kingdoms, and new heavens and earth at end of that time!]

Actually, the scriptures refer to the days when the Second Coming happens, and there is a removal of the Curse, as there is paradise reborn on earth at that time!]

His authority does not yet extend in full though upon this earth, as he is waiting until His second Coming to bring that to pass!]

Not yet, happens at time of Second Coming!

The curse over creation itself still remains until the Second Advent....

Yes, and there mass conversion seems to be when Jesus returns and Israel is reborn overnight back to God...]

I was taking this to be the time when all eyes of theirs shall behold him , and mourn over him, and God will turn those jews still living unto Jesus!

the blessing of God will come upon them in the last days...

The nation of Israel and the jewish people will be reborn again under messiah, as the dry bones will one day put on flesh and be alive again unto God! Ezekiel vision of the dry bones...

That has not yet happened , as Israel was not yet reborn spiritually unto the Lord!

The random off topic tweeting of Y1...ignore the questions and discussion...just Tweet unsupported ideas most of all do not respond to scriptures offered at all...then expect people to answer