Westminster Confession Of Faith And The Fall Of Man

Paul stated that God has elected some into his good pleasureto obtain salvation, while others were unfit instruments of his wrath, and destine for punishment, as unfit vessels fit for destruction, such as Pharaoh, correct?

 

Y1, you have yet again posted fiction, unbiblical and false.

Scripture says God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election.

By the numbers,

1) Ordain, as used in the Westminster Confession means predestine, which is an erroneous view. God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, therefore God is not the author of volitional sin.

2) Total Spiritual Inability is false theology, the Bible teaches the lost possess from conception, limited spiritual ability. Some by the practice of sin lose what spiritual ability they had, i.e. the first soil of Matthew 13.

3) Christ died for all mankind, those saved or to be saved, and those lost or will be lost. He provides the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world.

 

God decrees all that even happens, and yet eyeryone is still accountible for their own actions
Jesus stated that those who reject Him are children of satan, as ALL of us were at one time, so mot much discernment available to us to exercise!
If Jesus died in same way for all sinners, all have been atoned for, all would be saved!

 

Y1 never tires from posting assertions devoid of truth. Does scripture say God decrees all that ever happens? What Book, chapter and verse. None will be forthcoming.

Jesus dying to become the propitiation or means of salvation for mankind, does mean God credits everyone's faith or lack thereof and transfers them into Christ. Apples and Oranges.

 

Read vs 36 until it sinks in, Van.

Romans 11:33-36

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! 34 “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” 35 “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” 36 For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.

 

Wow! That last statement is the height of your exegetical powers, is it? It's right up there with the religion of the Pope and what bears do in the woods. Earth to Van; everyone deserves God's wrath! (Romans 3:10-18 etc.). But as far as Pharaoh is concerned, God says to him, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth" (Exodus 9:16; Romans 9:17). 'Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.'

 

Which one? They are two different things. And can you find me a verse anywhere in the Bible where Jesus is described as the 'means of salvation' for anyone, let alone all mankind?

 

Hi Martin, I know you disagree with my view, but I also know you having nothing to offer from scripture to alter my view.
1) Did I say Pharaoh did not deserve God's wrath? Nope, I said he did.
2) Did I say God did not harden Pharaoh? Nope, I said he did.
3) You said Jesus was not the means of salvation, I say He is. Because He became the propitiation for the whole world, all of fallen mankind, He became the means of salvation for each and every person God transfers into Christ. He died as a ransom for all, those saved and to be saved, and those never saved.

As has been demonstrated once again, posters on this board cannot defend the unbiblical claims found in the Westminster Confession, so misrepresentation, such as post #86, becomes the post of the day.

 

I actually offered three Scriptures. How many did you offer in your reply? That's right, none.

Did you have any reply to my posting of Romans 9:17-18? Nope. You didn't.

Well perhaps you can set the standard in Biblical posting by finding me somewhere, anywhere in the Bible, that the Lord Jesus is described as the 'means of salvation.' Come on! It must be somewhere! Have you checked in Jude or 2 Thessalonians? Surely you haven't made the whole idea up out of your own head, have you? And while you're at it, which text says that God transfers us into Christ? Hint: it's not Colossians 1:13.

Also, do you actually know what a propitiation is? Do you think it is a synonym for 'means'?

 

Why not put him on ignore and be done with him? I did and breathe so much easier.

 

I've had him on ignore for quite some time, but I noticed that he has been posting a lot recently. My concern is that someone might actually think he knows what he's talking about. I know that seems unlikely, but one can never be sure

 

Some confusion here. Does Christ provide the means of salvation, or does He become the means of salvation? If you visit my house and I provide dinner, it is not quite the same as my becoming dinner.
I think we should be told.

 

Where does the bible state that God intended jesus death to save all persons?

 

Hi Y1, I think you have denied those scriptures long enough.

 

Jesus is the means of salvation. Now what part of that can you not grasp. Does that mean Jesus provides dinner or is the dinner. Now put you little thinking cap on. Whether I should suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous posters, who deny the very words of scripture, is the question.

Folks, picture Jesus hanging on the cross, covered not with bulls blood, but His own. Then read 1 John 2:2. "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." (NASB)

You said Jesus was not the means of salvation, I say He is. Because He became the propitiation for the whole world, all of fallen mankind, He became the means of salvation for each and every person God transfers into Christ. He died as a ransom for all, those saved and to be saved, and those never saved.

 

Did God intend the death of Jesus to provide salvation for all sinners then?

 

Y1, you have asked that question before. And it has been answered before. Why are you repeating yourself? Obfuscation on display? Does becoming the means of salvation for those of the whole world mean God has chosen to transfer each and every person into Christ, even those whose faith has not been credited as righteousness? Is this too difficult for Y1 to grasp, or is he engaged in more obfuscation? Go figure

 

Excellent! You're half way there. Jesus is indeed the propitiation for our sins.
Now all you need to do is to find that text which says that Jesus is the means of salvation and you're home and dry. So come on; where is it? One of us is denying the 'very words of Scripture,' but I think you'll find it is your good self.

 

Martin, I am not the one who denies Jesus is the means of salvation, you are. How were you saved from God's wrath? You do something very good? You prayed the right prayer? Or were you covered by the blood of the Lamb?

Jesus is our propitiation or means of salvation/ Quite simple really.