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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by AndyMartin, May 19, 2017.

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  1. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    no "cop out". Can you tell me how it is possible for Jesus to command the preaching of the Gospel of salvation from sins to "every human being", as in Mark 16:15, which is also accepted by Calvinists; and yet say that these same people who hear this Good News, are not allowed to believe, because God had not "predetermined" this? This looks like a very dishonest approach of presenting the Gospel to the whole world!
     
    #21 AndyMartin, May 21, 2017
  2. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    I answer you from Paul:

    "And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12)

    Can you see mans responsibility and God's Righteous Judgement? They REFUSE to believe the Truth, that they might be saved, and are damned for this. They condemn themselves by their rejection, and God adds to their judgement by encouraging them to believe their lie!
     
    #22 AndyMartin, May 21, 2017
  3. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    God sovereignly tells his children to be his ambassadors in rebel lands.
    God, by his sovereignty, chooses not to tell us who will or won't believe.
    God never says that humans are not allowed to believe. (That is a fatal flaw of your making.) God says that no one seeks God. Not even one.
    God says that He has predestined some who do not seek Him to become His children. This happens because God is a very gracious God.
    What is dishonest in teaching what God, Himself, says in the Bible?

    The only dishonesty is on your part when you claim that we say humans are not allowed to believe. You utterly fail to accept God's word when He tells you that no one seeks after God.
     
    #23 MennoSota, May 21, 2017
  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Of course they didn't receive it. They, like all humans, rebel against God. They don't seek God and they find God to be foolish. God must save them despite themselves. God must extend grace or no human would ever be saved from damnation.
     
    #24 MennoSota, May 21, 2017
  5. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Once again, @AndyMartin, which is greater...God's will or man's will?
     
    #25 MennoSota, May 21, 2017
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I see. So, salvation is at least partly by works?
     
    #26 TCassidy, May 21, 2017
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    the bible does not say that anywhere, God will send multitudes into second death.
     
    #27 Iconoclast, Jun 12, 2017
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    never is that language used in scripture...a sinner is never told to "accept" anything.
     
    #28 Iconoclast, Jun 12, 2017
  9. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Guys, this bloke has cut bait and fled. Its been over 2 weeks since he was last on here. His ideologies melted like snow in a volcano.
     
    #29 SovereignGrace, Jun 15, 2017
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    This is the informal fallacies called "black or white" fallacy and "question begging". There are more reasonable options to consider therefore your point is not reasonable, and it assumes if sin was paid for it then also must be applied to all.
     
    #30 Revmitchell, Jun 15, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2017
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Again the informal black and white fallacy.
     
    #31 Revmitchell, Jun 15, 2017
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    You don't provide an answer, but simply dismiss the question by claiming a fallacy made up by human reasoning.

    If sin has been paid for all humans, why does it not apply to the one for whom sin has been pardoned? The application is in providing the payment. The contract is fulfilled.
    Yet, now you present that there is in fact another layer to the contract.
    Please present the other layer or layers you imagine are there.

     
    #32 MennoSota, Jun 15, 2017
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