I do not know where verse is.....but I know what col2:15 says happened at the cross.....
You have no answer to any of the other posts? You just ignore them all?
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Spiritual understanding - part 8
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You have no answer to any of the other posts? You just ignore them all?
Maybe this is what your looking for?... Brother Glen
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Thanks, but I was trying to find the verse he see suggests about Jesus second coming....that at that time He would put down a satanic Kingdom..Maybe this is what your looking for?... Brother Glen
Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
I thought col2:15 spoke to that....
I see there was no response to psalm 2 being quoted in Acts and in other NT. verses....
Okay Iconoclast, just trying to help... Lets try this again... Could this be the verses your looking for?... Brother Glen
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Okay Iconoclast, just trying to help... Lets try this again... Could this be the verses your looking for?... Brother Glen
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
I've been waiting to introduce this passage into the discussion.
In 2 Thes. 1 Paul does refer to the final coming of the Lord for resurrection & vindication of the saints & judgment. of the wicked. In his previous letter ch 5 he said that day would come without warning (as a thief) but they would be watching -
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober.
Alluding to Jesus' warning to all, after the destruction:Mark 13:30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is.
When we read 2 Thes. 2, we see events involving the temple must take place before the final coming. This is a coming to judge those this generation of Jews who rejected their Messiah & the truth of the Gospel of salvation:
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The reference to the lawless one is similar to John's reference to antichrist already in the world in the then last hour. 1 John 2.
This isn't some future eschatological prophecy, but real events about to happen as prophesied by Jesus in his Olivet prophecy.
But who was the lawless one?... Here is an interesting side note I came across recently... When Nero died there were reports that he had been seen in other parts of the country... Many thought he was still alive and he never died and there were many imposters saying they were Nero... But upon further investigation they were found to be liers, that is how strong the Neronic influence was in Rome... Brother Glen
Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
from a footnote;
68 Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., He Shall Have Dominion (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1992), 221. 69 When Paul discusses the enthronement of Christ he uses the aorist tense, which indicates that Christ’s enthronement occurred at a point in time past. When he discusses the reign of Christ he employs a present active infinitive. Paul was convinced he was living in the millennium (in Christ’s kingdom).
then this on page33;
Premillennial dispensationalists recognize that this passage refers to the setting up of Christ’s kingdom (the millennium). But since they believe that the millennium occurs wholly in the future, they must engage in exegetical gymnastics to fit the vision into their system of interpretation. First, they must ignore the progressive growth of Christ’s kingdom from a stone to a mountain. The overthrow of the Gentile world power must be sudden and total to fit into their scheme.
Yet Christ describes His kingdom as starting very small and growing progressively throughout history (Mt. 13:31-33).
Second, in order for the passage to fit in with a wholly-future kingdom concept, dispensationalists have invented the idea of a wholly-future, revived Roman Empire. They interpret the phrase “in the days of these kings” as referring to the toes of the image. They argue that the toes of the statue and the ten horns of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 represent ten kingdoms which will form the basis of the future, restored Roman Empire.
68 Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., He Shall Have Dominion (Tyler, TX: Institute for Christian Economics, 1992), 221. 69 When Paul discusses the enthronement of Christ he uses the aorist tense, which indicates that Christ’s enthronement occurred at a point in time past. When he discusses the reign of Christ he employs a present active infinitive. Paul was convinced he was living in the millennium (in Christ’s kingdom).
then this on page33;
Premillennial dispensationalists recognize that this passage refers to the setting up of Christ’s kingdom (the millennium). But since they believe that the millennium occurs wholly in the future, they must engage in exegetical gymnastics to fit the vision into their system of interpretation. First, they must ignore the progressive growth of Christ’s kingdom from a stone to a mountain. The overthrow of the Gentile world power must be sudden and total to fit into their scheme.
Yet Christ describes His kingdom as starting very small and growing progressively throughout history (Mt. 13:31-33).
Second, in order for the passage to fit in with a wholly-future kingdom concept, dispensationalists have invented the idea of a wholly-future, revived Roman Empire. They interpret the phrase “in the days of these kings” as referring to the toes of the image. They argue that the toes of the statue and the ten horns of the fourth beast of Daniel 7 represent ten kingdoms which will form the basis of the future, restored Roman Empire.
frompage34;
Second, the Scriptures clearly teach that Satan was bound at the first coming of Christ. In Matthew’s gospel Jesus tells the Pharisees that He has bound the strong man (the devil) and is now plundering his goods (Mt. 12:28-29). In John’s gospel our Lord said regarding His coming crucifixion, “now the ruler of this world will be cast out” (Jn. 12:31). Christ came to earth “that He might destroy the works of the devil” (1 Jn. 3:8). Jesus said during His ministry “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Lk. 10:18; cf. vs.19; 9:1). The author of Hebrews associated the binding of Satan not with the second coming but with Jesus’ sacrificial death. Our Lord assumed a human nature “that through death He might destroy Him who has the power of death, that is, the devil” (Heb. 2:14). The verb destroy (katargeo) means literally to render inoperative, to nullify, or to render ineffective. The apostle Paul concurs: “Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it” (Col. 2:15). In other words Jesus led “captivity captive” (Eph. 4:8). Satan received his death blow at our Lord’s first coming (Gen. 3:15).
Bearing in mind that the present warfare is spiritual (Eph. 6) we should understand prophecy such as 2 Thes. 2 as relating to the spiritual realm.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
The One who will do miracles and signs and wonders has yet to happen though!But who was the lawless one?... Here is an interesting side note I came across recently... When Nero died there were reports that he had been seen in other parts of the country... Many thought he was still alive and he never died and there were many imposters saying they were Nero... But upon further investigation they were found to be liers, that is how strong the Neronic influence was in Rome... Brother Glen
Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Satan has gotten the death blow, but just as Hitler, the war keeps going on until he finally actually falls!
John wrote near end of the first century, and he was still looking forward to the second coming and the millinual reign!
For being bound, it is interesting that right now he prowls around like a lion seeking to devour us, and that he gets chained up after the second coming event!
Even Google couldn't help ...
"Your search for millinual did not match with any results."
As an native Englishman I don't always understand what we call "American English" or your bizarre spelling. If you read & corrected your own posts we might know what you are writing about. A possible suggestion is that millinual is something to do with millinery - head coverings.
We talk figuratively about people wearing different hats, depending on what they are doing - so I wonder if you are applying that to the reign of King Jesus. He can be said to be wearing different hats in his various roles -
King of kings, Judge, Lion of Judah, sacrificed Lamb, Good Shepherd, Baptiser with the Holy Spirit, Bread of Life, giver of Living water, God of all comfort, and countless other precious names & roles as Lord & Saviour.
Oh, & have you any Scriptures - from the Holy Bible - that even suggest that "John wrote near the end of the first century?" Only by imposing what you call "theology given apart from the scriptures" can you get all your crazy interpretations.
As I indicated in my OP, the futurist errors derive from a desire always to make prophecy future - to the interpreter - rather than see it as fulfilled to the glory & vindication of the LORD Jesus Christ.
Meant to see the Millennium rule of Jesus!
And the advantage of the futurist view is that we can have the scriptures speaking to each generation, as the complete fulfillment is still yet to come!
In what way do the Preterist & Amillennial views inhibit the Scriptures from speaking to each generation. Surely the Scriptures themselves do speak to everyone in every generation regardless of our interpretation. We may be wrong in our understanding, but the Scriptures always speak the truth.
Can we have an example of how the futurist view speaks - to us today?
We have that hope of the future Second Coming to both exhort us to live godly, and also that hope that the present world will one day be changed to How God intended it to be running, a paradise restored under messiah!
That hope is shared by ALL the redeemed, regardless of eschatology.
There is a problem with futurist views that see an complex eschatology -
a national tribal Israel separated from a church of Jew & Gentile united in Christ;
a future temple & renewed animal sacrifices in violation of Christ's perfect final sacrifice;
Christ & his followers involved in physical warfare;
a focus on the promised land rather than on Christ & the New Heaven & New Earth;
searching newspapers & TV reports for fulfilment of prophecy;
etc. I'm sure you can recognise the Old Covenant Scripture prophecies.
a future temple & renewed animal sacrifices in violation of Christ's perfect final sacrifice;
Christ & his followers involved in physical warfare;
a focus on the promised land rather than on Christ & the New Heaven & New Earth;
searching newspapers & TV reports for fulfilment of prophecy;
etc. I'm sure you can recognise the Old Covenant Scripture prophecies.
On the other hand Amillennialism, including Preterism see this Scripture applied directly to the present Gospel age:
Mark 13: 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”
32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37 And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”
And Preterists (full & partial) see the prophecies relating to the destruction fulfilled by the destruction (!) Christ's prophecies are sure as we can see by their fulfilment:
30 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
The Futurists are still waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, while the scoffers scoff as they live & die seeing the Futurists false "end times" prophecies fail again & again.
2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
Historical premils like me would not see it just as you outlined it here though!
How would you see it then?
How would you correct what I have understood & written about Futurist belief?
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