Featured Spiritual understanding - part 8

I'll dissect that post -
1. The hope is the Second Coming, as we still await glorified bodily resurrection.

We agree there.
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2. National Israel will be reborn at that time,

No. Jesus told Nicodemus,

“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”​

Living & dead believers will be raised (or changed) together for glory at the second coming. 1 Thes. 4-5
Unbelievers will be raised (or changed) for judgement at the same time. Scripture gives no hope for repentance after Jesus return.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labour pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. ​

The Old Covenant prophecies regarding Israel are quoted by the New Covenant writers as being fulfilled by Christ in the one body, one redeemed people of God. e.g. Eph.2. There is no suggestion in the NC of a separate future for national Israel. Romans 11 has a single olive tree. The remnant are saved if they do not continue in unbelief.​

3. .... but before that Second Coming, any Jew saved is same way Gentiles are now

Again we agree. The Jews in Christ inherit all the promises of Christ by faith as Gentiles do. Scripture is very clear.
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4. No temple/sacrifices needed before Second Coming

Nor after - the church is the true temple.

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.​

5. Jews/Gentiles saved will be glorified and part of same body,

If you mean those saved in the Gospel age, we agree.​

6. while Gentiles Jews alive at His returning enter into Millinium

The whole idea of the millennium as a future dispensation on earth is a contradiction of the glorious resurrection at Jesus' return in glory.
Jesus' saving work was FINISHED at Calvary.
The Futurist scenario is unscriptural fantasy. ​

 

Thanks for adding Scripture, but, do these Scriptures support your theology?

The points I challenged were:

1. National Israel will be reborn at that time,
2. No temple/sacrifices needed before Second Coming
3. Gentiles Jews alive at His returning enter into Millinium​

I also challenge:

4.Except that the OT prophets foretold a time on the earth when Messiah would reign over the people of God, as the earth would be paradise reborn, as if someone died as a child at 100 people would say God cursed him!​

These all relate to the doctrine of a future millennium, AFTER the return of Christ, but, as you say:

The hope is the Second Coming, as we still await glorified bodily resurrection. ​

You quote Old Covenant prophecies, but no NC prophecies. Jesus taught that he was the fulfilment of prophecy:

Luke 4:21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. ​

There are no NC passages that prophesy a specific glorious future for national Israel or the ethnic descendants of Abraham. The reverse is true:

Mat. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, 9 and do not think to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
John 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”
Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”​

Peter declared that the "last times" prophecy of Joel was fulfilled at Pentecost, in the saving name of Jesus.

Acts 2:16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
......
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’
........
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”
​

These passages & many others indicate that the OC prophecies are being fulfilled in the present Gospel age by the LORD Jesus Christ, and that the people of God, children of Abraham, Israel of God, comprise all believers regardless of ethnicity.

Eph. 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
.......
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. ​

 

You have confirmed your agreement that:

The hope is the Second Coming, as we still await glorified bodily resurrection​

So people hear the Gospel, repent & believe in Jesus as Lord, & we are saved & become the redeemed people of God. We die & are received into heaven awaiting the resurrection.

1 Thes. 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
​

The unbelievers are raised to a resurrection of destruction.

2 Thes. 1:8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe,a]" data-fn="#fen-NKJV-29660a">[a] because our testimony among you was believed.​

So, what & when is the Millennium?
Peter suggests that it is the present Gospel age that will end with the destruction of the creation as we know it. The duration is indeterminate - one day or 1,000 years. It is followed by the New Heaven & New Earth.

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
​

When John prophesies, the millennium is populated by first resurrection saints, martyrs, living & reigning with Jesus.

Rev. 20: And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. ​

What then is the first resurrection that protects us from the second death? Jesus & Paul agree that it is conversion.

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live

Eph. 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, ​

All believers are born again by the Holy Spirit; we have in spirit passed from death to life. The millennium is the Gospel age. We become citizens of Jesus' millennial kingdom at conversion, & reign with him from heaven after death.

The whole idea of of future millennium with an earthly kingdom for ethnic Israel, complete with temple & animal sacrifices is a total misinterpretation of OC prophecy, & a rejection of NC fulfilment.

 

Y1,

I note from you profile information:

I hope my posts fall within the range of your enjoyable reading.

And please don't treat the Bible prophecy as Sci Fi - we see too much of that from the Futurists.

 

They - and all of us who are saved in this present Gospel "dispensation" - will rejoice at the glorious truth even if we are mistaken in doctrine..

However you futurists are seriously guilty of giving false hope to Jews & others who reject Christ & the Gospel. Offering hope in a future millennium is a false hope - a cursed other gospel.

They rejected their Messiah at his first coming & perished in the destruction, and you teach that they will be saved AFTER his second coming. That is a damnable heresy.

You also teach by implication that our faithful covenant-keeping God abandoned 100 generations of Jews.

Have you studied & considered my posts & related Scriptures? I look forward to a detailed reply, or a genuine desire to learn Scripture truth.

 

Read John 5 - There is a clear Scriptural difference between the spiritual resurrection when we believe & are saved, & the bodily resurrection.

4 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.​

 

So you do preach a cursed "other gospel" offering hope AFTER Jesus returns. Any Scriptures to back up your heresy, or is it another example of your theology without Scripture?

Paul quotes Isaiah when he writes:

2 Cor. 6:1 We then, as workers together with Him also plead with you not to receive the grace of God in vain. 2 For He says:
“In an acceptable time I have heard you,
And in the day of salvation I have helped you."
Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.​

 

Yes it does - but there is a first resurrection:

Now open your Bible & read John 5.

4 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.​

 

We are not denying the resurrection of all the dead when Jesus returns in glory. We are considering the first resurrection. which I believe is conversion. Don't even think of "buying it."

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
.....
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Those blessed by the first resurrection will not suffer the second death. The second death is hell. Verse 6 describes our present status as believers as is clear from John's greeting in the opening chapter:

Rev. 1:4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.​

Verse 5b is an allusion to baptism, as is the verse you cited - Romans 6:5:

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, ​

Baptism is a clear picture of spiritual death of our old sinful life, dead in sin, & resurrection to new spiritual life in Christ - a resurrection life BEFORE death. A life that assures us of eternal life, so that at the end of our natural life our souls continue to live in the presence of our Saviour in heaven.

In is also an assurance of our cleansing from sin by our Saviour's blood, & of our born again of the Spirit life, and so our son & heir status as children of God, with all the promises given to Abraham.

Gal. 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.​

Read on in Galatians:

4:6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.​

I think you are missing out when you write:

"we having been given the Spirit of adoption, yet to receive, the adoption of Romans 8.

We are currently heirs of the hope of eternal life, not yet inheritors, having been given the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:7"​

Of course we live in hope - a sure & steadfast hope -

Heb. 6:19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil​

And now I preach -

Realise who you are as a born-again child of God, baptised into Christ by the Holy Spirit.
Your old sinful life is dead & buried - rise up & LIVE, knowing that all the promises of God are yours in Christ!
The Christian life is not a sort of unsure half-life - live in the hope that NOTHING can separate you from the love of God & all he has promised.