Is Wayne Grudem Right?

You might be speeding to the hospital with a loved one who needs medical help.

You might indeed get a speeding ticket.

Does that automatically mean you DESERVE a speeding ticket?


Where God says all mankind DESERVES HELL. Bible Verse, now.

I don't care for a person's opinion, Show it to me straight from God's mouth.

God can be upset with everyone, not pleased with anyone, very angry, he can personally punish one, two, three, all......... Show me straight from God's mouth, bible verse, ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL.

And is it really all.....or just all elect?

 

Do you understand what the law is created for?

You are making an argument for relativism and the ends justifying the means. Do you really think the law cares about your argument for why you broke the law? It still condemns you.
What you need is a pardon. How does God, the judge, pardon law breakers, utilyan?

You want God to pardon without any payment being rendered. Show me in the Bible where pardon is given without any payment.

 

All who have sinned are under the wrath of God, and that will be in the end worked out at the final judgement and hell...

 

Three texts from the Psalms. Just join the dots.
Psalm 7:11. 'God is a just judge, and God is angry with sinners every day.'
Psalm 9:17. 'The wicked shall be turned into hell.'
Psalm 14:2-3, 'The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one.'

 

I want justice, your making a strawman.

Example of pardon given by God no payment:

The woman caught in act of adultery. She doesn't even apologize, Jesus drops the whole thing.

The Law was created FOR MANKIND. God doesn't need laws or rules, YOU DO. The Law is solely for man's benefit.

God is just fine without law.

 

God is just and angry with sinners = GOD SAYS ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL ? NO.

'The wicked shall be turned into hell.'= God says all mankind deserves hell? NO.

"They have all turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is none who does good, no, not one." = GOD SAYS ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL? NO?


You think you are GOD? Who the heck are you to JUDGE and decide who deserves what?


You say --> GOD SAYS in the bible ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL.

Show me the VERSE RIGHT NOW!


You are trying to pass your own sense of judgement on others.

You are not God. Putting words and judgments into God's mouth is a sin.

Show me where he clearly states ALL MANKIND DESERVES HELL.

 

I showed you; it's as clear and easy as 1-2-3, but you don't believe God and if anyone on this board took any notice of you, which fortunately no one does, you would be guilty of sending them to hell with a pocket-full of false promises..
'They have also healed the wound of My people slightly, saying, "Peace! Peace!" When there is no peace' (Jeremiah 6:14).

 

If you want justice then you want the enforcement of the law.

What you have argued is for God to not be just. You have argued that there are times that the ends justify the means and God should take that into consideration as our judge. You are saying that God should not be just in all situations. You want a God that is unjust in some situations and just in others. You want a god made in your image.

The woman caught in adultery is shown grace. There is a pardon give to her. The fact that she doesn't apologize is consistent with how God works. God's grace is freely given, apart from our actions. Your choice of the woman caught in adultery illustrates this wonderfully.

 

Makes me thing of the brothers of Joseph. They meant it for evil but God for good in selling him.

 

Are you saying YOU don't deserve hell?

 

I always have to go back to Col. 1:16 that reminds us that all things were created by and FOR the Son, Who earned His Name in Heaven by the work He did on this earth on the Cross.

You wanna talk mysteries?

God didn't create the earth for Adam and Eve. It was never the plan that humanity live forever romping naked over benign, unravaged and uncursed ground in a pestilence free garden. The plan was always the Cross.

And when you keep that in view, you realize that none of this was created for you either, but you too were created for Christ, and are part of the plan of the Cross, whether you be the scoffer or the penitent.

 

"enforcement of the law" = she should be stoned as law says.

This problem is between you and Jesus.

Read closely there is NO PARDON given to her, because NO one is there to condemn.

Had you been there you would insist to stone her! Cause under your theology she is already CONDEMNED as TOTALLY DEPRAVED.

In fact the UNCONDEMNED state does not exist in theology, You even sincerely believe "SHE DESERVES HELL" when in fact she doesn't even deserve to be stoned!

Ask yourself does she deserve to be stoned? Jesus was against your attitude from the beginning!

 

My judgement on myself? Doesn't mean anything. Hey I can claim I deserve every hell possible. That doesn't make it final.

God alone makes the judgement and he gave a WORD that is JESUS CHRIST.

John 3

17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

God has made his statement, yours is ink and paper, God's word is Jesus Christ. He said I deserve Jesus Christ and I got Jesus Christ to prove it.


I dare you to walk up to me with your stones of "HE DESERVES HELL" bring them to Christ right now. I don't even deserve lip from you.

 

Grace was shown to her by God himself. God was there to condemn her, but God pardoned her. Only God can forgive sins as the scribes and Pharisees rightfully understood.
God show her grace. She could ask for nothing greater.
There is no problem between me and Yeshua. He is the one who pardoned me when I deserve damnation. He is the one who pardoned the woman caught in adultery.

 

You are clearly a universalist, utilyan. For you, Yeshua's sacrifice was in vain.

 

LOL. If you knew the law, you'd tremble. You're just a vain and blustery windbag.

Mods, really? This guy is not preaching any Gospel at all. Can 'im.

 

Folks go to hell. I am not universalist. What you are doing is a common accusation put on all non-calvinist.

 

Aaron I'm not going to return insults, I'm christian. I would never ignore or shut you off either because If it wasn't by God's grace I'd be in your shoes.

I stated bible verse. You have not shown a bible verse that is GOD's PROCLAMATION that all mankind deserves hell.

Its a enlightening moment of humility when a person believes they deserve hell for what they do and face up responsibility to God. Yes that is a sweet turning point, when some folks have to hit rock bottom.

HOWEVER, It would be out of my place to put WORDS into GOD's MOUTH, and state that all mankind deserves hell.

#1 Jesus Christ is in that number. At least fix your error "ALL MANKIND EXCEPT JESUS deserves HELL".

I don't think you believe Jesus Christ deserves hell.

 

You contradict yourself. At one moment you're saying God does not damn people to hell. Now you say He does. Make up your mind, utilyan. You're confused and don't even know what you believe. You're like a wave tossed by the wind. I can't take your personal contradictions seriously. You have no clue what you believe.