Did a Calvinist say this?

[Revmitchell]

"...but because God loves people so much, He wants to fill His beautiful heaven with people who will live with Him forever. Our sin should keep us out of heaven, but instead, God invites everyone-you too!-to come to Him and ask for forgiveness for our sins. And He promises forgiveness to each one who asks."

I find no dishonesty in this post. Not sure why someone would.

 

[agedman]

The answer to who can and those that cannot respond to salvation's call is found in John 1.

God loves the whole world.

God's son died for all.

Only those that do not turn from the light does God give the authority to become His.

Because All have turn away (sinned), the great cry is given to all, repent (turn around) that you might still have the opportunity to be given the authority by God to be saved.

Throughout Scriptures the choice is always that of God and not of human ability. It is left up to humankind to repent (turn around to the light) it is up to God to examine the heart and separate soul and spirit.

 

[MennoSota]

I find no dishonesty in this post. Not sure why someone would.

Rev, Reynolds honestly believes what he says. It's simply that the Bible doesn't teach what Reynolds believes.

 

[Reformed]

I explained why in post #19.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Reynolds]

Yes. If God desired that people perished, or took pleasure in the destruction of the wicked, then we would view God as evil (and rightly so because Scripture testifies to the oppisite). On the other hand, if God has to have his will met in desiring none perish then either all would be saved or God is powerless to accomplish His will (which is also an unbiblical statement).

I desire not to punish my son but in terms of discipline I act against this desire to fill the greater desire that my son will be a man of character.

Calvinism holds that God desires none perish. To this end God loved the world by sending His Son so that those who would believe would be saved. This is a free offer if grace to the human race, all of mankind. Jesus is the proposition for the sins of the whole world (as John Calvin said, all men indiscriminately). I understand there is a form of Calvinism that denies this (I believe you will see this in @Yeshua1 's position), but there is also a form of free-will theology called Open Theism. It is not right to judge the whole by its extreme version (but both sides here seem to do just that).

Insofar as Calvinism goes, you seem to be arguing what you think it denies (and what some do, in fact, erroneously deny) rather than what it affirms. I think this may be due to Calvinism as it focuses on God and the Church rather than those who will not believe.

Sometimes men grasp one truth and, as Spurgeon noted when he referred to these as "narrow minded" Calvinists, can see nothing else. If they hold firmly to the gospel we can argue against what they miss but we shouldn't be too harsh. Perhaps this is all they are capable of doing.

I am honestly trying to learn, not trying to be tricky or evasive: Is limited atonement mainstream or extreme Calvinism.
Is irresistible grace mainline or extreme?

If the invitation is to all and grace is irresistible then all would be saved.

 

[Iconoclast]

Just call me the Grey Ghost....or is that name taken?

Anyway, MacArthur is right as God desires none should perish.

Not one of those given by the Father to the Son will perish....He seeks and saves each and everyone, and is not willing that any of those perish. He is longsuffering with the wicked until all the sheep are gathered.

 

[Reynolds]

Rev, Reynolds honestly believes what he says. It's simply that the Bible doesn't teach what Reynolds believes.

For clarification, I have not told you exactly what I believe, you have assumed to know what I believe. I hold a view not very far theologically from the view of D James Kennedy. I simply have holes that need filled in, areas that my mind does not completely wrap around. Some people are helpful and answer questions. You simply condescend.

 

[Reynolds]

Not one of those given by the Father to the Son will perish....He seeks and saves each and everyone, and is not willing that any of those perish. He is longsuffering with the wicked until all the sheep are gathered.

Thanks. Can you tell me in layman's terms what that means.
He seeks to save everyone or everyone of the elect?

 

[JonC]

I am honestly trying to learn, not trying to be tricky or evasive: Is limited atonement mainstream or extreme Calvinism.
Is irresistible grace mainline or extreme?

If the invitation is to all and grace is irresistible then all would be saved.

It depends. Calvinism as defined by the 5 points (Canons of Dort) do present Limited Atonement but not extending to the fate of those who don't believe. In other words, Christ died to save those who would believe and not to save those who would not believe. But some take these points (which addressed predestination) and build a tight "Calvinistic" theology around it. Don't accept that as Calvinism.

Ultimately this all boils down to predestination and how God exercised His sovereignty. My personal issue is the exclusiveness of the Calvinistic view of atonement (which most of us have adopted....that is Calvin's theory of Penal Substitution), not so much in what it affirms but in what it dismisses as secondary.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thanks. Can you tell me in layman's terms what that means.
He seeks to save everyone or everyone of the elect?

Hello Reynolds,
In EZK 34 The Good Shepherd declares what He will do.
He informs us.....He is going to seek...and SAVE....His sheep.

Jesus tells us He is The good Shepherd And He does what He has purposed to do-

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

8 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

Do you see two things here...they are Called out from among the people, they are His Flock, My Sheep?
It is not everyone who ever lived.

Why did savation come to Zacchaeus lk19
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[Reynolds]

It depends. Calvinism as defined by the 5 points (Canons of Dort) do present Limited Atonement but not extending to the fate of those who don't believe. In other words, Christ died to save those who would believe and not to save those who would not believe. But some take these points (which addressed predestination) and build a tight "Calvinistic" theology around it. Don't accept that as Calvinism.

Ultimately this all boils down to predestination and how God exercised His sovereignty. My personal issue is the exclusiveness of the Calvinistic view of atonement (which most of us have adopted....that is Calvin's theory of Penal Substitution), not so much in what it affirms but in what it dismisses as secondary.

I can agree with that. This is essentially the "foreknowledge" position that all Calvinists I know wholeheartedly reject.

 

[Reynolds]

Hello Reynolds,
In EZK 34 The Good Shepherd declares what He will do.
He informs us.....He is going to seek...and SAVE....His sheep.

Jesus tells us He is The good Shepherd And He does what He has purposed to do-

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.

7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

8 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

Do you see two things here...they are Called out from among the people, they are His Flock, My Sheep?
It is not everyone who ever lived.

Why did savation come to Zacchaeus lk19
9 And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

I will have to study this passage again, but I have never taken it to be talking about anything other than regathering Israel.

 

[Iconoclast]

Reynolds,

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.[lets see who are the everyman]

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

 

[Iconoclast]

I will have to study this passage again, but I have never taken it to be talking about anything other than regathering Israel.

I did at first also, lol...but compare it to john 10:26,27...then lk19....you will see it and the dots will all get connected.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Jesus did not view all men as His sheep...

 

[TCassidy]

Just call me the Grey Ghost....or is that name taken?

Already taken. Colonel John S. Mosby, Confederate States Army.

 

[MennoSota]

For clarification, I have not told you exactly what I believe, you have assumed to know what I believe. I hold a view not very far theologically from the view of D James Kennedy. I simply have holes that need filled in, areas that my mind does not completely wrap around. Some people are helpful and answer questions. You simply condescend.

I have no idea what view D. James Kennedy holds. Is he semi-pelagian?

 

[TCassidy]

Is limited atonement mainstream or extreme Calvinism.

Limited atonement is mainstream, orthodox Christianity.

Sufficient for all.
Efficient only for those who believe.

The atonement is limited in its application, not in its efficacy.

Is irresistible grace mainline or extreme?

The term itself is awkward at best. The better term is "Efficacious Grace." The Grace of God always accomplishes what God intended it to accomplish. God's Grace never fails.

If the invitation is to all and grace is irresistible then all would be saved.

Why?

 

[MennoSota]

I can agree with that. This is essentially the "foreknowledge" position that all Calvinists I know wholeheartedly reject.

No Calvinist rejects foreknowledge.

"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers." ~ Romans 8:29

I accept what God says. Not only does God foreknow, God also predestines.

Do you even know a Calvinist?

 

[JonC]

Not one of those given by the Father to the Son will perish....He seeks and saves each and everyone, and is not willing that any of those perish. He is longsuffering with the wicked until all the sheep are gathered.

I think the confusion comes in when people (I don't mean you) start thinking of lost "elect" people yet saved as sheep (i.e., sheep who at that time do not hear the voice of the Shepherd). Some have presented a "serpent seed" type of doctrine and have tried to pass that off as Calvinism.

 

[JonC]

I can agree with that. This is essentially the "foreknowledge" position that all Calvinists I know wholeheartedly reject.

I know many Calvinists, one a professor of missions. But I have only met the type who reject MacArthur's on a few forums. This is interesting because I am from SC, grew up in GA and TN (we don't live in different parts of the country). I guess it shows how much diversity is out there.