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Featured Did a Calvinist say this?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Reynolds, Jul 9, 2017.

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  1. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I know Calvinism well. I know many Calvinists. The biggest problem I run into is there are about 1000 varieties of Calvinism. My best friend is a Calvinist who was educated in a Presbyterian seminary. He is now a SBC pastor. You are again twisting things to suit you. God has foreknowledge of everything, that is not in dispute. The foreknowledge position which I am specifically referencing is the position that God determines the elect by having a foreknowledge of how they would exercise their free will, if they really had free will.
     
    #41 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2017
  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    So is there a potential for anyone to receive that atonement?
     
    #42 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  3. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Yep. My 4th great grand father was one of his Lieutenants until being transferred back to Ga to round up and execute deserters.
     
    #43 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
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  4. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    "Predestination" has to do do with being conformed to the image of Christ.
    "Election" has to do with service. Israel was "elect", angels are "elect", even the Lord Jesus Christ Himself is "elect". Neither term has to do with being "elected" or "predestinated" to salvation. God indeed is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. He spoke to the whole congregation of Israelites in Deuteronomy 30:19 telling each individual to "choose life". Jesus said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem" how often would I have gathered thee.....but thou "would"(a form of the word "will") not. Meaning he wanted them to repent and turn to him but they refused of their own will It's found throughout the Bible. God extends His salvation invitation to all and by all He means "all". Yes, some reject but God gave us the freedom to "choose life" or death.

    To say that God only chose certain ones to be saved, by default means he chose NOT to save others. If you are a "double predestinationist" you are just being more honest than the rest. But either way, it misrepresents the God of the Bible. God wants all to be saved. Some will not be, but it is because they rejected Him, not the other way around.
     
    #44 SheepWhisperer, Jul 10, 2017
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  5. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Only believers can have the atonement applied to them. And no sinner ever receives the atonement simply because it is not offered to us. The atonement is offered to the One Who was offended by our sin.
     
    #45 TCassidy, Jul 10, 2017
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  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Which seems to suggest that God did not know who would "exercise their free will" (which, of course, is a myth and does not exist) and thus He was not always Omniscient.

    As too "free will." The bibles says the will of the lost man is not free. It is in bondage to the law of sin and death and, therefore, the very concept of "free will" is a myth.

    Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

    The will is not free until it has been set free from the law of sin and death by the law of the Spirit of new life in Christ.
     
    #46 TCassidy, Jul 10, 2017
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  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, it doesn't. The others do not have to be chosen to damnation. They are already condemned.

    Don't accuse me, and others here who accept that God is Sovereign and does not need our help to save us, of being dishonest. Doing so will not end well.

    No, it does not. It honors the Omnipotent, Sovereign God of all creation.

    So God wants all to be saved but just can't seem to accomplish that task? He is too weak to overcome man's resistance? Man is stronger than God?
     
    #47 TCassidy, Jul 10, 2017
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  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I agree with the first sentence. I don't understand the rest.
     
    #48 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  9. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    #49 SheepWhisperer, Jul 10, 2017
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Atonement is "satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury" done to another.

    Our sin offended our Holy God. He is the offended one. Not us. God does not owe us any atonement, He does not owe us any "satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury" which He has done to us. It is the other way around. He is the offended party. Therefore the atonement, "satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury" is owed to Him, not to us. We can't reject the atonement because it is never offered to us. It is accepted by God on the basis of the finished work of Christ on the cross which alone is the "satisfaction or reparation for a wrong or injury" done by us to our Holy, Heavenly Father.
     
    #50 TCassidy, Jul 10, 2017
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  11. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    God is not "weak". He is Almighty. In the end he will judge all of us, including any who misrepresent Him, no matter who we are..
     
    #51 SheepWhisperer, Jul 10, 2017
  12. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Who, on this board, has that view? What is the percentage of Calvinists who actually hold the view you express? My guess is there are more members of the Hebrew Roots cult than there are Calvinists who hold the view you are referring to.

    Is that the reason why you are antagonistic to God's teaching regarding predestination? It seems petty.
     
    #52 MennoSota, Jul 10, 2017
  13. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
    #53 MennoSota, Jul 10, 2017
  14. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
    #54 MennoSota, Jul 10, 2017
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  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Let me turn your question for Reynolds into a statement. No Calvinist believes in the foreseen faith view of predestination. Such a view is antithetical to Reformed soteriology. A person who holds that view, and claims to be a Calvinist, is either ignorant (of Calvinism) or is playing fast-and-loose with the truth. The foreseen faith view impugns God's sovereignty because it makes God dependent on a condition; the condition being the choice of the individual in the future which determines God's action regarding predestination.
     
    #55 Reformed, Jul 10, 2017
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  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I am not antagonistic. I have questions and seek answers. You do not answer questions, you belittle and condescend.
     
    #56 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  17. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    So...the answer is no one. Got it.
     
    #57 MennoSota, Jul 10, 2017
  18. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I agree that it would be a conflict for a y
    Calvinist to hold that position. How do you view Gods offer of salvation? Is it to all or some?
     
    #58 Reynolds, Jul 10, 2017
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So now you admit God is Sovereign and does not need our help to save us?
     
    #59 TCassidy, Jul 10, 2017
  20. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The offer is made to all, although all cannot respond. 1 Corinthians 2:14 says that the natural man (the unsaved man) cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God because they are spiritual discerned. The natural man is dead in sin, ergo he cannot understand the gospel call unless it has been granted to him to do so. The way he is granted the ability to understand is through illumination by the Holy Spirit. Those whom the Spirit illumines will come to faith in Christ. Those who are not illumined by the Holy Spirit will persist in their unbelief and their inability to respond in a positive way to the Gospel call.
     
    #60 Reformed, Jul 10, 2017
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