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Featured Doctrines of Calvinism denying the offer of salvation to the world

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Jul 10, 2017.

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  1. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    I sin more often than I wish. I am found in Christ. I am adopted and am a child of the Almighty King. I am pardoned by God's grace. My sins are forgiven. Past, present and future. (No, that does not give me license to sin. Read Romans 6 before you blather about it.)

    I find that I am talking to a rock when I speak with you. You have no ears.
     
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  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Thus you teach salvation by works, not by grace.

    I repeat. You are confused.
     
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  3. liafailrock

    liafailrock Member
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    If I may intervene on SheepWhisperer's behalf, why does it seem that you accuse us of "universalism" and being confused? Because we don't agree with you? Maybe we agree with the bible and that's better.
     
  4. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    There is no "work" in trusting Jesus as savior. It is simply to repent and believe on Jesus Christ in your heart. It's not even a step one, step two thing. A blind, deaf and dumb quadriplegic who can't move a muscle can believe the Gospel and get saved. Not a work brother.
     
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  5. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    The Bible does not support your position, which means your view does not agree with the Bible and is not only not better, it is heretical.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hello SW,
    Sure....All men ever born are born DEAD in sin....natural men.All natural born men are in Adam by physical birth.

    Not All physical ,natural men are found In Christ...this requires new birth as per jn3.....the free gift is only to those found In Christ.
    Two sets of all....all who remain in Adam...death,those In Christ..life eternal...
    See it?
     
  7. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Who gives you the ability to trust? You...or God?
    If it is you...then it is your work that saves you.
    If it is God...then you have been chosen by God to believe. It is God's grace and God's grace alone.
     
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You would be still in Adam!
     
  9. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I'm not getting your point. You will have to spell it out for me. I am just a simple New Jersey boy.
     
    #129 Reformed, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  10. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Brother MennoSota, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't. But I'm going do something I have learned to do when I don't quite understand things.......Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Now I will point out a few things the Word of God says.....

    Mar 2:5
    When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
    Mat 15:28
    Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
    Luk 7:50
    And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
    Mar 10:52
    And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
    Rom 4:5
    But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Now we will observe something else.......
    Mar 10:24
    And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

    I'm just going to say that God gave us hands, some choose to do good with them and others evil. He gave us feet, some choose to walk in His ways and others follow evil. He gave us a mouth, we use it to bless or use it to curse. I guess he just gave us all the ability to trust something,m whether it be the riches and pleasures of this world or trust in Him. But when we exercise that ability He gave to everyone, it issues forth as "his faith" "their faith" and "thy faith": He WANTS us to choose Him. So I will leave you with the Word of God, which, again shows how it works. God wants men to "choose life" and this life is in His Son..........
    Deuteronomy 30:19
    I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
     
  11. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    If you observe the verses you quoted and the passages surrounding those verses, you will see that God is the acting agent in healing and in faith. We can never take credit. It is not within our carnal beings to generate such faith from our own person.
    God is always the one who initiates the work. He is the author and perfector of our faith. (Hebrews 12)
     
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  12. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    The Gospel narratives about faith are not as easy to understand as are the Pauline references to faith. Jesus said in Matthew 5:34, "And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace and be healed of your affliction."" Left on its own, it appears Jesus is saying that this woman's faith healed her affliction. Certainly this is how Word of Faith false teachers understand this passage. But placed in context within the greater scope of scripture, this type of interpretation is proven false. The object of this woman's faith was in the One who could heal her, Jesus. Was this woman's faith saving faith? The text is unclear on that point. We do know that this woman believed that Jesus could heal, so we know that she trusted at least that much in the Lord's ability.

    We read the following in Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." In this text faith is not understood to be something that originates from within the individual. Faith is imputed to the individual. It is the gift of God. How do we know this? Consider two texts:

    In these two passages we see the utter sinfulness of man. We also see that man is spiritually dead, and incapable of understanding scriptural precepts. In Ephesians 2:1 Paul actually says the unsaved person is spiritually dead. Faith in God cannot proceed from such a person. Faith, even the ability to have faith, is a gift from God (Eph. 2:8). That gift is the work of the Holy Spirit (God) as seen in the following passage:

    As a figure of speech we may say that we have faith, but any true faith we have in God has been gifted by Him to us.
     
    #132 Reformed, Jul 14, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  13. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    You come up with all kinds of nice ways to say the person is damned to eternal Hell. You believe it, why not just say it?
     
  14. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Reynolds, what can God find in a man that would compel God to owe that man a favor?
     
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I suppose the implication is being created as a "vessel of wrath". :Cautious
     
  16. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Nothing. I am not arguing against your belief. I am questioning why most Calvinists can't call it what it is. Why try to make it sound nice?
     
  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. I respect and appreciate that straight, totally non evasive answer.
     
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    He would have to tweet 2 sentences???
     
  19. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I have no problem saying it plainly. Those who are not Elect are damned to hell. That is an incontrovertible fact. That said, no one knows who the Elect are except God. Even the most rabid Calvinist does not know. So, what does such knowledge mean practically? It means that the Gospel is to be preached to all as though all should be saved. God not only knows His Elect, He has ordained the means by which the Elect are called in time; that means is the preaching the Gospel. What a tremendous privilege for the preacher! He is granted the great privilege of being part of the means God uses to call His Elect. So, instead of focusing on those who have not been granted the repentance that leads to life (Acts 11:18), we should rejoice that there will be many who have been granted that repentance, and we can play a role in harvesting that number.
     
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  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Thanks. I likewise respect.that answer.
     
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