Doctrines of Calvinism denying the offer of salvation to the world

[MennoSota]

When a Calvinist accuses another of universalism = the Calvinist lost the debate.


Calvinist Logic is totally depraved of the capacity to understand how God wants one thing and gets another.


You don't sin anymore do you Menno?

Because GOD does not want, and wishes that you do not sin any more.

Here is a hint God does not want you to sin EVER AGAIN, its called a sin.

Does God want you to sin Menno?

Does God want ANYONE TO SIN?

I sin more often than I wish. I am found in Christ. I am adopted and am a child of the Almighty King. I am pardoned by God's grace. My sins are forgiven. Past, present and future. (No, that does not give me license to sin. Read Romans 6 before you blather about it.)

I find that I am talking to a rock when I speak with you. You have no ears.

 

[MennoSota]

You need to understand that Jesus "tasted death for every man" and the "free gift" was offered for every man, but it is up to each and every man to accept that free gift by trusting Jesus Christ to save him from his sin and from Hell.

Thus you teach salvation by works, not by grace.

I repeat. You are confused.

 

[liafailrock]

Thus you preach universalism. Yet, in earlier comments you deny universalism. You are confused.

If I may intervene on SheepWhisperer's behalf, why does it seem that you accuse us of "universalism" and being confused? Because we don't agree with you? Maybe we agree with the bible and that's better.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Thus you teach salvation by works, not by grace.

I repeat. You are confused.

There is no "work" in trusting Jesus as savior. It is simply to repent and believe on Jesus Christ in your heart. It's not even a step one, step two thing. A blind, deaf and dumb quadriplegic who can't move a muscle can believe the Gospel and get saved. Not a work brother.

 

[MennoSota]

If I may intervene on SheepWhisperer's behalf, why does it seem that you accuse us of "universalism" and being confused? Because we don't agree with you? Maybe we agree with the bible and that's better.

The Bible does not support your position, which means your view does not agree with the Bible and is not only not better, it is heretical.

 

[Iconoclast]

Enlighten me.

Hello SW,
Sure....All men ever born are born DEAD in sin....natural men.All natural born men are in Adam by physical birth.

Not All physical ,natural men are found In Christ...this requires new birth as per jn3.....the free gift is only to those found In Christ.
Two sets of all....all who remain in Adam...death,those In Christ..life eternal...
See it?

 

[MennoSota]

There is no "work" in trusting Jesus as savior. It is simply to repent and believe on Jesus Christ in your heart. It's not even a step one, step two thing. A blind, deaf and dumb quadriplegic who can't move a muscle can believe the Gospel and get saved. Not a work brother.

Who gives you the ability to trust? You...or God?
If it is you...then it is your work that saves you.
If it is God...then you have been chosen by God to believe. It is God's grace and God's grace alone.

 

[Yeshua1]

What is the implication of not being "elect in Christ"?

You would be still in Adam!

 

[Reformed]

You missed my point. And I did not say anyone believed that please read it again.

I'm not getting your point. You will have to spell it out for me. I am just a simple New Jersey boy.

 

[SheepWhisperer]

Who gives you the ability to trust? You...or God?
If it is you...then it is your work that saves you.
If it is God...then you have been chosen by God to believe. It is God's grace and God's grace alone.

Brother MennoSota, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't. But I'm going do something I have learned to do when I don't quite understand things.......Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Now I will point out a few things the Word of God says.....

Mar 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Mar 10:52
And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now we will observe something else.......
Mar 10:24
And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

I'm just going to say that God gave us hands, some choose to do good with them and others evil. He gave us feet, some choose to walk in His ways and others follow evil. He gave us a mouth, we use it to bless or use it to curse. I guess he just gave us all the ability to trust something,m whether it be the riches and pleasures of this world or trust in Him. But when we exercise that ability He gave to everyone, it issues forth as "his faith" "their faith" and "thy faith": He WANTS us to choose Him. So I will leave you with the Word of God, which, again shows how it works. God wants men to "choose life" and this life is in His Son..........
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

 

[MennoSota]

Brother MennoSota, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't. But I'm going do something I have learned to do when I don't quite understand things.......Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Now I will point out a few things the Word of God says.....

Mar 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Mar 10:52
And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now we will observe something else.......
Mar 10:24
And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

I'm just going to say that God gave us hands, some choose to do good with them and others evil. He gave us feet, some choose to walk in His ways and others follow evil. He gave us a mouth, we use it to bless or use it to curse. I guess he just gave us all the ability to trust something,m whether it be the riches and pleasures of this world or trust in Him. But when we exercise that ability He gave to everyone, it issues forth as "his faith" "their faith" and "thy faith": He WANTS us to choose Him. So I will leave you with the Word of God, which, again shows how it works. God wants men to "choose life" and this life is in His Son..........
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

If you observe the verses you quoted and the passages surrounding those verses, you will see that God is the acting agent in healing and in faith. We can never take credit. It is not within our carnal beings to generate such faith from our own person.
God is always the one who initiates the work. He is the author and perfector of our faith. (Hebrews 12)

 

[Reformed]

Brother MennoSota, I don't know the answer to that question. I don't. But I'm going do something I have learned to do when I don't quite understand things.......Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Now I will point out a few things the Word of God says.....

Mar 2:5
When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mat 15:28
Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
Luk 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Mar 10:52
And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.
Rom 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Now we will observe something else.......
Mar 10:24
And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

I'm just going to say that God gave us hands, some choose to do good with them and others evil. He gave us feet, some choose to walk in His ways and others follow evil. He gave us a mouth, we use it to bless or use it to curse. I guess he just gave us all the ability to trust something,m whether it be the riches and pleasures of this world or trust in Him. But when we exercise that ability He gave to everyone, it issues forth as "his faith" "their faith" and "thy faith": He WANTS us to choose Him. So I will leave you with the Word of God, which, again shows how it works. God wants men to "choose life" and this life is in His Son..........
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

The Gospel narratives about faith are not as easy to understand as are the Pauline references to faith. Jesus said in Matthew 5:34, "And He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has made you well; go in peace and be healed of your affliction."" Left on its own, it appears Jesus is saying that this woman's faith healed her affliction. Certainly this is how Word of Faith false teachers understand this passage. But placed in context within the greater scope of scripture, this type of interpretation is proven false. The object of this woman's faith was in the One who could heal her, Jesus. Was this woman's faith saving faith? The text is unclear on that point. We do know that this woman believed that Jesus could heal, so we know that she trusted at least that much in the Lord's ability.

We read the following in Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." In this text faith is not understood to be something that originates from within the individual. Faith is imputed to the individual. It is the gift of God. How do we know this? Consider two texts:

Romans 3:9-12 9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

10 as it is written,
“THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;

11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,
THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;

12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD,
THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.”

1 Corinthians 2:14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

In these two passages we see the utter sinfulness of man. We also see that man is spiritually dead, and incapable of understanding scriptural precepts. In Ephesians 2:1 Paul actually says the unsaved person is spiritually dead. Faith in God cannot proceed from such a person. Faith, even the ability to have faith, is a gift from God (Eph. 2:8). That gift is the work of the Holy Spirit (God) as seen in the following passage:

Ezekiel 36:26, "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh."

As a figure of speech we may say that we have faith, but any true faith we have in God has been gifted by Him to us.

 

[Reynolds]

You would be still in Adam!

You come up with all kinds of nice ways to say the person is damned to eternal Hell. You believe it, why not just say it?

 

[MennoSota]

You come up with all kinds of nice ways to say the person is damned to eternal Hell. You believe it, why not just say it?

Reynolds, what can God find in a man that would compel God to owe that man a favor?

 

[JonC]

What is the implication of not being "elect in Christ"?

I suppose the implication is being created as a "vessel of wrath".

 

[Reynolds]

Reynolds, what can God find in a man that would compel God to owe that man a favor?

Nothing. I am not arguing against your belief. I am questioning why most Calvinists can't call it what it is. Why try to make it sound nice?

 

[Reynolds]

I suppose the implication is being created as a "vessel of wrath".

Thanks. I respect and appreciate that straight, totally non evasive answer.

 

[Iconoclast]

You come up with all kinds of nice ways to say the person is damned to eternal Hell. You believe it, why not just say it?

He would have to tweet 2 sentences???

 

[Reformed]

Nothing. I am not arguing against your belief. I am questioning why most Calvinists can't call it what it is. Why try to make it sound nice?

I have no problem saying it plainly. Those who are not Elect are damned to hell. That is an incontrovertible fact. That said, no one knows who the Elect are except God. Even the most rabid Calvinist does not know. So, what does such knowledge mean practically? It means that the Gospel is to be preached to all as though all should be saved. God not only knows His Elect, He has ordained the means by which the Elect are called in time; that means is the preaching the Gospel. What a tremendous privilege for the preacher! He is granted the great privilege of being part of the means God uses to call His Elect. So, instead of focusing on those who have not been granted the repentance that leads to life (Acts 11:18), we should rejoice that there will be many who have been granted that repentance, and we can play a role in harvesting that number.

 

[Reynolds]

I have no problem saying it plainly. Those who are not Elect are damned to hell. That is an incontrovertible fact. That said, no one knows who the Elect are except God. Even the most rabid Calvinist does not know. So, what does such knowledge mean practically? It means that the Gospel is to be preached to all as though all should be saved. God not only knows His Elect, He has ordained the means by which the Elect are called in time; that means is the preaching the Gospel. What a tremendous privilege for the preacher! He is granted the great privilege of being part of the means God uses to call His Elect. So, instead of focusing on those who have not been granted the repentance that leads to life (Acts 11:18), we should rejoice that there will be many who have been granted that repentance, and we can play a role in harvesting that number.

Thanks. I likewise respect.that answer.