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Arminianism and Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by SheepWhisperer, Jul 25, 2017.

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  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Even though it actually would support a;; as being a gift from God?
     
    #61 Yeshua1, Aug 1, 2017
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Incoherent please rephrase
     
    #62 Revmitchell, Aug 1, 2017
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    If it is earned then it can't be grace.
     
    #63 JonC, Aug 1, 2017
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  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I did not say anything about anything being earned
     
    #64 Revmitchell, Aug 1, 2017
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    My apologies. If grace and faith is not of God then where do they originate?
     
    #65 JonC, Aug 1, 2017
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  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    grace and salvation are two different sides of the same coin
     
    #66 Revmitchell, Aug 1, 2017
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I agree that salvation is God's grace to those who believe (we are saved by grace). And I think we agree that this grace is through faith. My earlier comment was that salvation (this grace through faith) is of God (as Paul said, God's gift). I understood your reply as a rejection of this (as denying grace and faith was of God) and asked if not of God then of where do they originate?

    If I misunderstood your reply as an objection, you have my apology.
     
    #67 JonC, Aug 1, 2017
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  8. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    Since I started this thread, may I interject here?
    The Bible speaks of Jesus saying things like "and when he saw 'her faith', 'his faith' and 'their faith'". I'm going to say that God gave EVERYONE the capacity for "faith" just like He gave us two hands, two legs and a brain. How you USE it is up to you. For instance, some put their faith in things like Allah, Buddah, HareKrishna, Evolution or even themselves. One day I put MY faith in HIS Son and He saved me by HIS Grace. There is no "merit" or "works" in that. It's all Him.
     
    #68 SheepWhisperer, Aug 1, 2017
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am not aware of Scripture speaking of “his faith”; “her faith”; or “their faith” except it being a faith in God. In fact, those who worshiped false gods or strayed from the One True God are described as not having faith. So we are talking about a faith in God, and specifically a faith in Christ towards salvation.

    I do not believe that we can have faith in God apart from the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, revealing God to us. The reason I say this is I understand Scripture to indicate God actively hardening the hearts of people at times in order that they do not believe when faced with the truth of who He is. At the same time I see Scripture as indicating God actively opens the eyes of men to the truth of who He is. So apart from God and the work of God men will not believe.
     
    #69 JonC, Aug 1, 2017
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  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Everything is of God but in Ephesians 2 the gift spoken of is not faith is is grace (salvation) saying through faith does not also make it a gift in the same sense that grace is. Faith comes from hearing the word.
     
    #70 Revmitchell, Aug 1, 2017
  11. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Which shows its not innate in man. It comes from hearing...source outside of someone...the word.

    No hearing the word = no faith.
     
    #71 SovereignGrace, Aug 1, 2017
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    The Admin council has taken the appropriate action. Please leave the moderation of the forum to those who have been given that responsibility.

    If you have an issue with a post just report it and the Admin council will take whatever action they deem appropriate.
     
    #72 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2017
  13. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    #73 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2017
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  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    SheepWhispererLearn to use the "quote" function.
     
    #74 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    No, they are not. The Admin council has already taken action. Again, do not violate BB rules by discussing Admin actions in the open forum.
     
    #75 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2017
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Umm I did not discuss admin actions. The only thing I know is what I see ignored. I said nothing about admin actions.
     
    #76 Revmitchell, Aug 1, 2017
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    OK?
     
    #77 Revmitchell, Aug 1, 2017
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, you did. You implied the Admin council ignores violations.

    This subject is closed. Period.
     
    #78 TCassidy, Aug 1, 2017
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  19. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace Well-Known Member
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    Which debunks your theology. Faith is not innate in man.

    Not everybody has faith. Not everybody has heard the gospel before dying.
     
    #79 SovereignGrace, Aug 1, 2017
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Nope.

    Hebrews 6

    4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

    They got the grace still fall.



    Guess which verse is holy scripture and what is not at all holy scripture:

    A
    Romans 5
    2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    B
    Romans 5
    2By whom also we have access by grace into this faith wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.


    One says exactly what you are saying, the other the exact opposite.
     
    #80 utilyan, Aug 1, 2017
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