Is the pendulum swinging in a different direction?

All I can show you is scholars with diplomas piled up as high as yours disagree with you.

 

I have a prayer language, but it is the same language I use in public and is not different in private. So I suppose my answer in context is "No."

 

You asked what my point was. I already had made the argument, you were just being obtuse.

 

TC, it seems you are missing the forest for the trees.

 

I look at it as a genuine attempt to discern what God gifted tongues are as opposed to pagan babbling. Corinth had both, but mostly it was paganism in the church, which Paul was correcting.
I do believe all the gifts are still given by God today, but much more judiciously than some would expect.

 

In my opinion the bible is very clear that tongues have ceased and we are only guided by the Spirit through His Word. I'm surprised there are Baptists out there who still believe in some form of gift of Tongues!

 

Paul, in this passage, never admonished the Corinthian church for paganism or counterfeit gifts. He admonished them for misuse of the genuine gifts.

 

But they are considered the best linguistic scholars.

 

There are plenty. The number is growing.

 

God had told Israel as a nation this:isa28-
5 In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,

6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the Lord, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

16 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.



6 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.

21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Apostolic sign gifts were in part a judgment upon 1st century Israel.
The Apostles ceased to be on this earth, so did the Apostolic sign gifts;
2cor12
9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

 

Sorry M, I must dis agree here. Paul is contrasting partial knowledge with complete or perfect revelation. We know in part, we prophesy in part;
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The Apostles were promised to be guided into ALL TRUTH.....jn14, 15, 16,.....they were!

 

God always understood Japanese when I prayed in it. The Bible says nothing about an "unknown" tongue, a language the praying saint could not understand. The word "unknown" is not in the original Greek but added by the KJV translators, unfortunately.

 

You are misinterpreting this passage, as tongues speakers usually do. It says nothing about us praying in tongues or even our own language. It is for when we cannot pray, because it says, "for we know not what we should pray for as we ought."

I have experienced this on the mission field of Japan (Satan's territory for sure) when I had no idea what to pray, so was simply sitting there, but then sensed the Holy Spirit praying for me. And that's all I care to say about that experience on this forum.

So this verse is not about tongues at all, and it is certainly not about a prayer language. It specifically says that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us. Now in intercessory prayer, we do not pray for what the object of our prayer is, we pray for what we believe the will of God to be. For example, when I pray for a Buddhist relative I have to be saved, I am not at all praying in accordance with that person's wishes. They have no desire at all to be saved. Instead, I am praying for what God wants for that person. Just so, the intercession of the Holy Spirit is praying for God's will for us when we have no idea what that is and how to pray for it.