Have you been deceived by Satan through your church?

[Samuels]

I believe that prophetic and apostolic ministries ended long ago.

I used to have the "gift of prophecy and tongues being baptized in the Holy Spirit"

... divisive statements meant to grab attention are not in line with the fruit of the Spirit or the bible's commands.

The Greek word used for "believe" implies action based on your belief.

1) You simply are wrong, as in ... you have been deceived.

2) This is very awkward language for someone who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit
with the evidence of speaking in tongues and having been given the spiritual power gift of prophecy
(1 of the 9 gifts of anointing in 1 Cor 12).

3) Have God's prophets and watchmen always warned with divisive statements, or just today?

4) Do you mean John 3:16, etc. implies action? ...
No, it's all about an incorrect assessment of NT words such as pisteou,
which brought about bad and dangerous translations.
But, the precious Holy Spirit is given to teach us "all things".
He is capable of correcting the problems we have in our English translations.
But, believers must be OPEN to receive spiritual Truth from Him (and through others)
instead of being brainwashed, deceived, biased, etc. by our up-bringing, churches, etc.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

1) You simply are wrong, as in ... you have been deceived.

2) This is very awkward language for someone who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit
with the evidence of speaking in tongues and having been given the spiritual power gift of prophecy
(1 of the 9 gifts of anointing in 1 Cor 12).

3) Have God's prophets and watchmen always warned with divisive statements, or just today?

4) Do you mean John 3:16, etc. implies action? ...
No, it's all about an incorrect assessment of NT words such as pisteou,
which brought about bad and dangerous translations.
But, the precious Holy Spirit is given to teach us "all things".
He is capable of correcting the problems we have in our English translations.
But, believers must be OPEN to receive spiritual Truth from Him (and through others)
instead of being brainwashed, deceived, biased, etc. by our up-bringing, churches, etc.

There appears to be no sense in arguing with you. I simply ask that you please go back and read my post carefully to see what the truth is. Also, I'll add a question: Do you believe your prophecy is infallible like that of the apostles and prophets? Because if you don't, then you are clearly not speaking for the Holy Spirit, who only givers the very Words of God to us.

I must also state that sometimes the things told to others by Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets are bombastic and may seem divisive, but they seem to be only used on those doomed to Judgment should they not repent.

 

[Samuels]

There appears to be no sense in arguing with you.

Yes, because you fail to speak to the 4 points I made.

 

[Yeshua1]

1) You simply are wrong, as in ... you have been deceived.

2) This is very awkward language for someone who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit
with the evidence of speaking in tongues and having been given the spiritual power gift of prophecy
(1 of the 9 gifts of anointing in 1 Cor 12).

3) Have God's prophets and watchmen always warned with divisive statements, or just today?

4) Do you mean John 3:16, etc. implies action? ...
No, it's all about an incorrect assessment of NT words such as pisteou,
which brought about bad and dangerous translations.
But, the precious Holy Spirit is given to teach us "all things".
He is capable of correcting the problems we have in our English translations.
But, believers must be OPEN to receive spiritual Truth from Him (and through others)
instead of being brainwashed, deceived, biased, etc. by our up-bringing, churches, etc.

What would be the "bad" translations of that word used for believe then?

 

[Revmitchell]

2) This is very awkward language for someone who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit
with the evidence of speaking in tongues and having been given the spiritual power gift of prophecy
(1 of the 9 gifts of anointing in 1 Cor 12).

Ok, that explains the weirdness.

 

[Revmitchell]

Steven, so you don't believe that God has a five-fold ministry (Eph 4:11)?
Me, I'm merely doing the job that the pastors should be doing.
Don't do see the incredibly sad condition of today's churches?

Yea, Joseph Smith said something weird like that as well, as did Charles Russle Taze, and whatsherface with the 7th day adventists.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

1) You simply are wrong, as in ... you have been deceived.

2) This is very awkward language for someone who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit
with the evidence of speaking in tongues and having been given the spiritual power gift of prophecy
(1 of the 9 gifts of anointing in 1 Cor 12).

3) Have God's prophets and watchmen always warned with divisive statements, or just today?

4) Do you mean John 3:16, etc. implies action? ...
No, it's all about an incorrect assessment of NT words such as pisteou,
which brought about bad and dangerous translations.
But, the precious Holy Spirit is given to teach us "all things".
He is capable of correcting the problems we have in our English translations.
But, believers must be OPEN to receive spiritual Truth from Him (and through others)
instead of being brainwashed, deceived, biased, etc. by our up-bringing, churches, etc.

Since you want me to, I will answer your four points.

1) I am not deceived, instead I am sorry to tell you that you are deceived Brother. The Holy Spirit you know is the devil in another guise if that spirit is leading you to the Charismatic/Pentecostal movements.

2) I can even find some of my old prophecy for you. But I won't as it is all false prophecy. I had a spectacular so-called gift of tongues that allowed me to sing new songs at will in many angelic seeming languages. I believe, for now, that it was a counterfeit though. The thing that gets me is that I have never spoken in an actual living language though, which goes against how the actual gift is used in the bible.

3) Sometimes the things told to others by Jesus, the apostles, and the prophets are bombastic and may seem divisive and judgmental, but this tone seems only to be used on those doomed to Judgment should they not repent.

4) The word "believe" in the Greek implies belief that must result in action based on that belief. Nowadays we would call it something like a worldview.

 

[Samuels]

What would be the "bad" translations of that word used for believe then?

I guess all of them that do not made it clear what they mean by that one word, "believe".
P.S.
I've heard several times that a Greek word can have up to 40 meanings depending on the context.
And ...
I've heard several times that a Greek word can mean one thing in secular Greek,
and mean something else in the Greek NT.
Wonderful, n'est pas?

Again, we have the fact that it is up to the precious Holy Spirit to reveal spiritual Truth to us!

 

[Samuels]

Since you want me to, I will answer your four points.
1) I am not deceived, instead I am sorry to tell you that you are deceived Brother. The Holy Spirit you know is the devil in another guise if that spirit is leading you to the Charismatic/Pentecostal movements.

I got as far as point 1 ... to know for sure that you are the one who had been deceived!
All of my personal spiritual experiences line up (agree) with the Holy Scriptures.
Simple question:
Why would Satan confirm Jesus' precious Gospel message with signs, wonders, and miracles?
May I add ... this is total insanity!.

Hmmmm, this is what I said to a Christian forum (a year ago),
who insists that man has NO free will at all ... God ordains everything, etc.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Why would Satan confirm Jesus' precious Gospel message with signs, wonders, and miracles?
May I add ... this is total insanity!.

(Matthew 7:22-23) shows that many who do miraculous works will not inherit the Kingdom

(Acts 16:16-18) shows that Satan will spread the Gospel for his own wicked purposes.

 

[Yeshua1]

I got as far as point 1 ... to know for sure that you are the one who had been deceived!
All of my personal spiritual experiences line up (agree) with the Holy Scriptures.
Simple question:
Why would Satan confirm Jesus' precious Gospel message with signs, wonders, and miracles?
May I add ... this is total insanity!.

Hmmmm, this is what I said to a Christian forum (a year ago),
who insists that man has NO free will at all ... God ordains everything, etc.

Well, Satan and Antichrist will do wonders to deceive even the very elect, if that were possible, correct?

 

[Samuels]

Yes, of course, we know that Satan is the greatest counterfeiter in history
because he is the greatest liar and deceiver in history.

But, why would he duplicate God's historical plan of
CONFIRMING the Truth of Jesus' Gospel message
with incredible signs, wonders, and miracles?

Surely, he would do this to confirm the truth of a false religion or cult/sect.

But IMO, he would never do this to confirm the true Gospel.

 

[Felipe Rios]

My quick answer to this will be that all true children of God will remain faithful to God until the end, they will overcome until the end, and they will persevere until the end. And of course, there are many who "claim" to be His who will end up in Hell thinking themselves to be saved but they were never born again to began with.

 

[TCassidy]

My quick answer to this will be that all true children of God will remain faithful to God until the end, they will overcome until the end, and they will persevere until the end. And of course, there are many who "claim" to be His who will end up in Hell thinking themselves to be saved but they were never born again to began with.

So, Peter was not a "true child of God?" He denied Christ.

David was not a "true child of God?" He lusted, committed adultery, and murdered to cover it up.

Thomas was not a "true child of God?" He doubted Christ.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Yes, of course, we know that Satan is the greatest counterfeiter in history
because he is the greatest liar and deceiver in history.

But, why would he duplicate God's historical plan of
CONFIRMING the Truth of Jesus' Gospel message
with incredible signs, wonders, and miracles?

Surely, he would do this to confirm the truth of a false religion or cult/sect.

But IMO, he would never do this to confirm the true Gospel.

I misspoke terribly it seems.

I do agree that the Holy Spirit is the one who points to Jesus with miracles that undo Satan's Kingdom, especially healing and casting out demons as these divide Satan's own kingdom (Mark 3:26; Matthew 12:26; Luke 11:18). The clue here is that in Matthew 7 the miracle workers cast to hell used Jesus' name but did not know Jesus or do the will of the Father. They were given miracles from the Holy Spirit it seems, but only as ones condemned. However, as Acts 16 warns, Satan is not above predicting the future, and I would argue other counterfeit signs and wonders to deceive even the elect given Revelation, in order for people to "come to faith in Jesus" on Satan's terms so that they wind up like the false disciples in Matthew 7. I also sense another spirit of counterfeits though at work in my own past and in other charismatic ministries.

This has led me to the idea that I need to write up my own journey and share it on this forum, so that people can be warned and edified.

 

[Felipe Rios]

So, Peter was not a "true child of God?" He denied Christ.

David was not a "true child of God?" He lusted, committed adultery, and murdered to cover it up.


Thomas was not a "true child of God?" He doubted Christ.

Did they not come back from their sin? Did God not chasitised them leading to repentance? They did. The child of God who lives in sin will be reprobated and chasticed by God. His chastisement "will afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness" (Hebrews 12:11).
1 John 3:4-10, "4Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9No one who is born of God practices (continues) sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin (continually), because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother." (emphasis added).[/QUOTE]

So, Peter was not a "true child of God?" He denied Christ.

David was not a "true child of God?" He lusted, committed adultery, and murdered to cover it up.

 

[Samuels]

My quick answer to this will be that all true children of God will remain faithful to God until the end, they will overcome until the end, and they will persevere until the end. And of course, there are many who "claim" to be His who will end up in Hell thinking themselves to be saved but they were never born again to began with.

What makes you so sure that all of the born-agains will make it to heaven?

E.G. Dozens of dire warnings in the Epistles were written to born-agains in the churches!

 

[Samuels]

So, Peter was not a "true child of God?"
He denied Christ.
David was not a "true child of God?"
He lusted, committed adultery, and murdered to cover it up.
Thomas was not a "true child of God?"
He doubted Christ.

But, it's all about repentance ... since we all continue to sin.

 

[Samuels]

The clue here is that in Matthew 7 the miracle workers cast to hell used Jesus' name but did not know Jesus or do the will of the Father.

IMO, the whole deal with Matthew 7:21-23 is that these people were not into doing God's will.

Now, we have to figure out what God's will is ... it's more than just believing in Jesus.

 

[Yeshua1]

What makes you so sure that all of the born-agains will make it to heaven?

E.G. Dozens of dire warnings in the Epistles were written to born-agains in the churches!

Jesus said that they all would, and I trust him!