Featured Once Saved, Always Saved?

Steven,

Hurricane Irma is getting close to you there in Florida. With all the preparations you must make, why not close the thread to work on your preparations? And, you could then spend as much time as you want in the Archive once the danger passes. Then come back with a new thread like, "Who is responsible for a person to get SAVED--God or Man?"

I am praying for your safety. May the Lord bless you and yours with the peace of the Holy Spirit!

 

Hi Steven, I must admit that I have never commented here and may be doing this all wrong, but, I just saw your post and am glad to see your discussion. I have always thought that the entire Bible is written from the point of view that a person can throw away his salvation and eternal life. Until this year I was not interested enough to study it for myself. I have found that there are many verses that support this fact: one of them is 1 Cor 15 “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.” This is written to believers, see 1 Cor 1:2.

Another is Col 1:21-23 “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;” This verse is especially helpful because Paul was writing to a Church that he had not visited. He told the Philippian church that he was confident that God would finish the good work that He started in them but immediately afterwards told the reason that he felt that way. See Phil 1:7 and then later in the book at 4:14-18. I believe that if Paul wrote to the church I attend, he would word the letter something like he did to the Colossians.

The last scripture that I’ll list here is 2 Peter 2:20-21 “ For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.”

Each of these verses were written to believers and stress how important it is for a believer to abide. There are many other verses but these 3 are pretty straightforward.


The following is a very simple argument I will build on in time in this thread. Now, I will be doing bible study as this debate evolves and I will find all the verses I can and post them. This will help me better argue my contrarian position in new ways.

For now I will point out that Believers, whom the New Testament talks to, are regularly called by Jesus and the apostles to watch their behavior. Not only are they told this, but they are warned repeatedly of horrible consequences. Of these consequences, the one that jumps out most especially is eternity in hell. We often assume these verses apply to false Christians, but how do we define a false Christian? Why not just use the rubric that one who does not live doing the Father's will is in fact lost. This would seem to be a great way of making the Gospel message make sense given the hard statements of Matthew 7, the Book of James, and the Book of 1 John. These statements are no longer hard if we believe that we have always had the choice to jettison our faith. Also, how in the world does any of this fit into the conception that a person has all of their sins past, present, and future paid for? The weight of so many warnings should give pause to those that think they are permanently safe.

In addition, the disciples are even told to not judge outsiders but to instead judge amongst themselves and rebuke each other so as to be free of sin. Relatedly, we are told to fear the Lord all throughout the bible, including the New Testament. However, how can we have a healthy fear of the Lord, and thus be deadly afraid of rejecting His will, if we believe ourselves to be eternally safe? Why fear God at that point?

Lastly, if there is no certainty to our salvation in this life, does that mean we have so called free will or that God's plan is more complex than previously believed

Again, I will have the verses to back up my basic assertions and add to my statements in time. I just don't have the time to look all of them up tonight.

 

This is probably not the place to ask but where can a person find the archived OSAS posts?

 

Click on Forums... Scroll all the way down To Archives Read Only... Click on Free-For-All-Archives or the year you want... In the upper right hand corner is a search box... Enter OSAS or anything else you are looking for, in the search box... Now click on the icon magnifying glass in blue... There it is!... Don't forget to click on the heading on the left, as that will bring up what was said in the topic... Browse to your hearts content... Yes it is the place to ask, we are not that mean!... Welcome to the BB... Glad to help!... I'm Brother Glen

 

Please read, in this thread, a previous post of mine to Steven. Three brothers are listed. Any of them would be glad to help you.

Your Arminian arguments are not new! I have books that thoroughly refute them. OSAS, the Eternal Security of the believer, and the last point in TULIP (perseverance, or the preservation of the saints) have been argued in this forum adnauseam.

Steven's Arminian arguments have been soundly refuted in his three recent threads: confused, "...searching with all of my heart," and this one, "Once Saved, Always Saved." Please review the posts by Calvinists here, before / after going to the Archive. Your comments are always welcome.

Calvinists and Calvinist Baptists, believe that all of their sins, past, present, and future, were borne by Christ on the Cross. This is because His sacrifice was once for all time. (Heb. 9:12,25-28; 10:10,12-14). For Heb 6:4-6 and 10:30 (See my remarks on these verses in a post of mine to this thread.) Compare Rom 8:1, John 3:18,36; 5:24; 6:40,44,47,65;10:27-30; 1Cor 3:1,10,12-15; 5:1,5; 11:27,29-32.

Christ's continuous intercession for us makes our forgiveness and salvation certain! We must, however, confess our sins to have fellowship with the Father. (1 John) Our eternal relationship with Him is never broken.

 

Mr. Davis I got you covered... I showed him how to find it... I hope he doesn't decide to read it all, we won't see him back here until 2018... Maybe I helped to much... Brother Glen

 

We accept as truth that Jesus meant it when he stated that all that are saved by Him will be kept by Him, as Jude also reaffirmed to us!

 

True. As we see in Matthew 18, in Ezekiel 18, in Romans 11, in 1Cor 6, in 1 Cor 9 ...

Here is what "scripture clearly teaches"

Fallen from grace, severed from Christ - Galatians 5:1-4 " 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace "

Ezek 18
24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die. 25 Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not right.’ Hear now, O house of Israel! Is My way not right? Is it not your ways that are not right? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and dies because of it, for his iniquity which he has committed he will die. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from his wickedness which he has committed and practices justice and righteousness, he will save his life. 28 Because he considered and turned away from all his transgressions which he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.


Forgiveness revoked: Matthew 18: 32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

Disqualified from the Gospel : 1 Cor 9:23 Now this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I may be partaker of it with you. 24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. 25 And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown. 26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

Stand by Faith yet fear being cut off from Christ: Romans 11:19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again


Do not be deceived into believing OSAS 1 Cor 6:7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren. 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

 

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

Well done...good synopsis.

 

And that still does not stop you from sinning...see, you still have a sin nature.

 

I'm proud of you Davis...you are a tribute to the tribe. BTW do you know where that name comes from?

 

true, but also have the new nature and the Holy Spirit to keep us from sinning!

 

"BobRyan" wrote: "True. As we see in..."

I do not see it.

Your ignorance is embarrassing! Your arguments have already been addressed in the Archive. The last two people that posted like you have have gone to the Archive to learn about both sides. And, your arrogance is showing. Instead of replying individually to the Calvinist arguments here, and studying the two other threads by Steven Yeadon, you go off on your little tirade!

 

That is his way of doing theological "discussions".

 

I agree it is the condition the causes the action not the action that causes the condition... We are all sinners, and when we are saved, we are saved sinners... If I can't convince you maybe the Apostle Paul can... It's one of my personal favorites... Brother Glen

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 

I do not believe in Lordship salvation

 

You know I am a Primitive Baptist right?

 

Yes I do and I wasn't pointing to you personally and was bumping off of what you said... I was putting an emphasis on it, I apologize, if you took it wrong... Brother Glen