Partial Preterism and Futurism Continued

Can YOU prove any pret assertions?

 

Face it Sportzz Fanzz -

For preterism to be true, its followers must**PROVE** the prophesied events they SAY have happened, have INDEED already happened. So far, they're batting ZERO.

The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple aren't usually cited by prets in their doctrine except as parts of other events such as the great trib. Now, there's plenty of empirical evidence & documentation those destructions occurred. Not one stone of the temple was left upon another, just as Jesus said.

Now, Jesus didn't directly say J would be rebuilt, but he implied it by saying it would be trampled underfoot by gentiles til the fullness of the gentiles had come in, that is, when all the gentiles to be saved, ARE saved.

The pret doctrine generally includes the coming of the "beast" & his deputy the false prophet, the "abomination of desolation", the marka the beast, the great trib, & in the case of full preterism, the returna Jesus. IT'S VERY-OBVIOUS THOSE EVENTS HAVE NOT yet occurred! Those are HUGE, SPECTACULAR events, but they're totally absent from history.

Preterism could be proven true ONLY if those events had already occurred, but they HAVEN'T, so preterism is false.

But, rather than admit they've been deceived into believing a false doctrine, prets will try to justify it by trying to reduce "inconvenient" Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status, or by saying, "Here's what that passage REALLY means......" & inventing a whole new meaning for it.

Brethren, GOD'S WORD SEZ WHAT IT MEANS & MEANS WHAT IT SEZ! We do NOT have license to make it read differently to try to cause it to fit a pet doctrine or agenda. God's word is a set of ABSOLUTES, being mostly-literal, with mosta its symbolism explained by other Scriptures, or easily-discerned by our overview of all Scripture.

Remember, preterism was mostly invented by the jeezits of the 16th century, who were trying to keep their pope from being labeled the antichrist. They relied on the general public of the time not being overly-familiar with world history. And unfortunately, more than one other catholic believed them.

Truth is, the eschatological prophecies of the Olivet Discourse and revelation have NOT yet been fulfilled. Otherwise, the prets could name the antichrist & false prophet, describe the marka the beast, etc. And if the great trib has already occurred, then Jesus is long-overdue, according to His own words!

Yes, preterism is one of the easiest false doctrines to completely refute! No pret can prove even one of their doctrine's assertions!


"""PRETERISM - PHONY AS A FORD CORVETTE!"""

 

MY HERO NERO

Many prets believe Nero was the "beast/antichrist/that Wicked/son of perdition/man of sin".

But they're WRONG !

Why?

1.) The beast will commit the AOD by entering the temple, setting up his statue in it, which the FP will supernaturally cause to speak, declare himself to be God, & demand that he & his statue be worshipped. Nero was never in Jerusalem, so he couldn'ta done those things.

2.) The beast will overthrow three other kings or rulers to attain his full power. Nero was APPOINTED Caesar by the Senate & Claudius, his grand-uncle & stepfather.

3.) The main "beast" will have another "beast" as his deputy who will be a miracle-working false prophet. Nero had no deputy at all, let alone one who could work miracles!

4.) No man can overcome the "beast". Nero was overthrown by the revolts of General Galba .

5.) Nero never issued, nor ordered to be issued, any "mark of the beast". To say his image on Roman coins was that mark is more-than-absurd & ridiculous!

6.) The Revelation plainly sez that the beast and false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus' return, but Nero DIED by having his secretary Epaphrodatus stab him. Galba's men, who'd come to arrest Nero, tried to save his life, but he died in fronta them.

Thus, while Nero was a pretty evil person, he was NOT the great antichrist "beast". The REAL "beast MUST fulfill EVERY prophecy about him EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER. Sorry, prets, you're gonna hafta find another candidate to be your beast!

 

Jesus literal prophecies:

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

Luke 21:29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees.30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. ​

For starters ...

 

Read Daniel 9:20-27 closely.

OK, so, when were the sun & moon obscured on that day? When and what were the wonders in the sky & signs in the earth? I believe V19 is the beginning of another prophecy about the day of Jesus' return, separate from the pentecost. Remember, Jesus said He'd send the Comforter( the Holy Spirit) after He was gone.

And Peter DID mention "the last days".

Do any of those names not fit Jesus?

Hasn't yet cometa pass.

2 Thess. 2, Rev. 13

Bo, you don't believe Daniel, Paul, Jesus' revelating angel, or Jesus Himself.? There are over 50 bible verses mentioning the 'beast', either directly or by clear implication.

The fact that the prophesied eschatological events have obviously not yet occurred is what started futurism.

 

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Explained in Verses 20-21.

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Implied by the knowledge that Jesus is God/Savior/Messiah[/B]

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Will cometa pass at the rapture.

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The generation that sees these things begin will see them all.​

As I said earlier, the Bible is MOSTLY-literal, and most of its symbolism is either explained in other Scriptures, or is discerned by our overview of ALL Scripture.[/quote]

 

Again, preterism can be sustained ONLY by ***PROVING*** all the prophesied eschatological events have already occurred. No pret can do it, so they invent bunny trails & toss red herrings such as the ones above to try to distract people from that FACT.

There's a HUGE credibility gap between the pret pronouncements and history/reality. Thus, prets constantly try to invent new meanings for Scriptures whose truth destroys their doctrine. They simply cannot close the credibility gap otherwise.

If preterism were true, its believers should be able to:

Name the beast/antichrist & his deputy the false prophet

Point out when the great trib occurred, with all life in the seas being killed, all green grass burned up, and a world rain of rocks, among other things

Describe the marka the beast & tell us who issued it when

Point out when the AOD occurred

Tell us when the great cosmological disturbance occurred, immediately after the trib ended

And the full preterist should be able to point out when Jesus returned, being SEEN BY ALL, as He said.

It's because I know NO PRETERIST can do those things that I say that preterism is phony as a Ford Corvette!

 

You are not likely to get it because the very post in which you leveled all those complaints was done in the exact same manner you are omplaining about. Maybe newbies like yourself should develop relationships around here before you go around bashing people you do not know.

 

Sure you did:

1. "So there is nothing your closed mind will understand."
2. "Because obviously you don't understand Scripture at all."
3. "If you can't even understand that then there is no point in continuation of this argument."
4. "I was there once as a futurisist. But as I matured in my understanding it all became clear."
5. " I don't need to have a fairy tail faith saying nothing happened yet
6. " One with a more serious disposition"
7. "you seem very simple minded"

 

Definition of literal - taking words in their usual or most basic sense without metaphor or exaggeration, (of a translation) representing the exact words.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”​

​

In the literal context, Jesus is referring to the temple he has just cleansed. Neither his disciples nor other witnesses understood his words until after his resurrection.

Note that at his trial, witnesses testified:

Mar 14:58 - We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.​

NOT a literal prophecy.
-----

John 4:13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Jesus is literally talking about water, as the woman clearly understood with incredulity.

15 The woman said to Him, “Sir, give me this water, that I may not thirst, nor come here to draw.”​

He is actually speaking of the life giving Holy Spirit.

NOT a literal prophecy.
------

John 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.

Jesus has just healed a lame man. Now he declares that dead people will hear his word & live. He is speaking of the spiritually dead, who begin eternal life when they believe in the Son of God. (John 3:16) It happens as people listen to the Gospel, then & throughout the Gospel age.

Nothing to do with the supposed rapture - you seem to have a reading problem. Jesus said:

the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
​

Read on & you will see the rapture/resurrection is a separate occasion:

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.​

NOT a literal prophecy.
------

Luke 21:29 Then He spoke to them a parable: “Look at the fig tree, and all the trees.30 When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near. 31 So you also, when you see these things happening, know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all things take place. ​

Jesus is talking to his disciples explaining the significance or not of various forthcoming events, both natural & military. War, famine, earthquakes & diseases will occur, but should not trouble them - they are not prophetic signs - the end is not yet. Persecution will occur, but be faithful - endure to the end. What he means by the end is another question.

Specific events will occur prior to the destruction, & when they occur, it will be time to flee the city. Note that Jesus is talking to his disciples & advising "you." Translations consistently say "this generation" & in the many occurrences of that expression, Jesus is referring to the generation that rejected him.

Jesus is referring literally to this generation & many details of the Olivet prophecy are literal, & were fulfilled literally (as you have acknowledged.)

Further discussion of Jesus coming on the clouds is needed, & I would suggest that the prophecy is literal with parts in figurative language. That discussion will run on ....

There you've hit the nail on the point! The trouble is, when as you assert: "is discerned by our overview of ALL Scripture."

Does OC prophecy focus on the future of the nation of Israel, & renewed OC worship led by Messiah, in a future millennium, as those who claim "literal interpretation" assert
OR
Does OC prophecy centre on the Lord Jesus Christ, his redeeming work & the redeemed people of God of all nationalities as a holy nation who, when Jesus comes again will enjoy the NH&NE. Literal realities understood spiritually.

 

No, it's NOT.

it's just another set of bunny trails & red herrings.

There's only ONE thing that can sustain preterism - PROVING that the prophesied eschatological events have actually already occurred. All else is grasping st straws.

It's VERY OBVIOUS the events prophesied in Rev. 13, Rev. 16, etc. have NOT yet occurred, so the diehard preterist tries to reduce those Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status in the face of other Scriptural prophecies that have cometa pass EXACTLY AS WRITTEN. Jesus prophesied war, rumor of war, persecution of Christians, the destruction of J & the temple, the rebuilt J being trod underfoot by gentiles, etc - prophecies that cameta pass exactly as written. Thus, there's NO valid reason to believe the rest of His prophecies won't cometa pass just-as-literally and exactly.

Jesus said a tribulation is coming that will be the worst in history, and, if not cut short, NO flesh (man or animal) would survive. He also said that, IMMEDIATELY AFTER that trib, there'd be a great cosmological disturbance, during which He will return.

As for the "beast/antichrist/man of sin/that Wicked/son of perdition", he is mentioned in at least fifty verses of Scripture, so please, don't insult our intelligence by telling us he's "symbolic".

Again, if preterism were true, the preterist should be able to:

Name the beast and his deputy the false prophet

Describe the mark of the beast, tell us who issued it and when

Describe the "abomination of desolation", tell us who did it & what happened then

Tell us when all life in the seas died, and when all green grass was burned up

Tell us when it rained rocks worldwide

Name the two special witnesses

Tell us when Jerusalem was split into three pieces by an earthquake

And describe many other prophesied events.

The full preterist should be able to tell us when Jesus returned, seen by all, and what he did afterwards, including casting the beast & false prophet alive into the lake of fire.


Preterists, if you can't provide that intel, you're believing a false doctrine, simple as THAT!