1 Tim 3:3 Corrupted in the modern versions?

Any mention of Mike's Hard Lemonade?

 

Not sure, RSR, what your point is? Baptists believe we should avoid alcohol based on the reason I provided. Some Baptists take it further, but those arguments cannot really be supported from scripture. You have not taken a position, other than to find fault with my view. We should try to edify, rather than grumble. If you disagree with the view I presented as the orthodox view, present your alternate view.

 

Not given to ... not give to ... would imply governed to ... and there several things which follow, that is gambling, I'll gotten gains. In this case wine is included in the intemperate activity list I am partial to the nkjv and shares much with Old KJV Here they agree possibly because both use part of the Byzantine text. The nkjv uses the Byzantine as a primary text which relegates Wescott and Hort to secondary text. Reciently I have been reading much from the NIV. From gossip. As of yet I find no real doctrinal errors. When I need a gold standard for translation I look to the AV 1901.

For the NIV it helps to get William Mounce Greek-interlinear. His father was one of my professors. It will parse and define each word in language I can understand. I recommend. I did have to get the exhaustive concordance.

As far as wine is concerned, let's not over interpret our bias. Drunkenness is condemned universally. I really do not want to become a drunk and I leave the stuff alone. Recommend others do the same. Can I say wine is verbotten? Can I claim one who drinks a bit is anathema? I do not think the writ give me that super power.

My humble opinion

 

Let get this right we baptists do not wear bobbed hair, make up, pants, beads, dance, smoke and God forbid the mocker.
Your right, baptists pay little attention convention resolutions. I might add none of which have much to do with salvation.

 

I remember when Dr. Fisher took me to his office and we talked about my Greek usage. He said your Greek is good but you would be the first scholar to climb out on that limb ... but you have the right to be wrong. I rest my case. Who is right Dr. Fisher or the flat earth society?

 

Why not address the argument from scripture that was made?

 

Dr. Robert Mounce, is about a year younger than my dad. You should get his Jesus, In His Own Words. It was published seven years ago.Following are some snips from his introduction.

"Although the style is contemporary, the desire is to clarify the meaning of the original text...."
"...the translation desires to provide a readable and accurate account, which will communicate the first-century message in contemporary language. Clarity has been a constant goal, and this involves making decisions regarding difficult verses and ambiguous language."

"All translation involves interpretation. My prayer is that at no point have I misled in any way what Jesus was doing or saying. You will be the judge of that. Over forty years of translation, including major involvement in the NIV, NIrV, NLT, and the ESV (as well as consulting on the TNIV) have provided the foundation for this work."

I will give you a sample of his work:

"The gift I leave with you is peace, the peace that I myself enjoy. It's not the kind of peace the world gives. So don't let your heart be troubled. Don't lose courage.

"Remember what I told you: I am going away, but I will be back. If you really loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to my Father because he is greater than I.

"I have told you this ahead of time, so that when it happens, your faith will not fail. I can't talk with you much longer because the ruler of this world is on his way. But he has no basis for an accusation against me. I am doing exactly what the Father has told me to do. Thus everyone in the world will know that I love the Father.

"It's time to leave; let's be on our way." (John 14:27-31)

 

There are two documentaries that you can watch that talks about what the OP referenced.
The first is called "A Lamp In The Dark


The second is the sequel to the above call "Tares Among The Wheat"

Maybe this is where the person in the OP got his information.

Both are 3 hours long.

 

Sigh, you did not take a position and ignored my view. I provided another quote to support the Baptist orthodox view (avoid alcohol) but you did not address that reality. It appears you agree we should avoid alcohol, since you have not offered a pro-alcohol view. Go figure.

Anyway, one claim was that my view was hard to find, as if I had made it up. Here is a quote from the web,

 

"none of this causing a brother to stumble stuff"

Huh?

White Paper "On Alcohol Use" by the SBC Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission's Richard Land and Barrett Duke:

http://v7.swbts.edu/tasks/render/file/?fileID=822B7337-FE75-FB6C-353484D92E0CC55B

p. 2 "Alcohol is...a primary contributor to a wide array of health problems and human suffering. These include various cancers, liver disease, alcoholism....Even those who are able to control their drinking should recognize that they are engaged in a behavior that is destroying millions of lives, and choose to abstain rather than encourage by their behavior someone to drink who will not be able to control his drinking."

 

Thanks Jerome, I do not know why orthodox views are disparaged. They may be off base, but to claim they are non-existent is unsettling, but far be it for me to sow discontent.

 

Relevant to the views expressed here as being held to by Baptists:

"drinking alcohol sinful in itself"

and

"causing a brother to stumble"


Lifeway Research found:

lifewayresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Perceptions-of-Alcohol.pdf

A majority of Southern Baptists polled did not agree with the "alcohol consumption is sinful" idea (p. 72)

A majority of Southern Baptists polled agreed with the "could cause others to stumble" idea (p. 74)

 

Would be a good answer, as taking it by itself is not sin, ifdone in moderation, but if I used to get drunk, or you have an issue, best to refrain!

 

So the avoid alcohol view is orthodox, not only among Baptists, but even SBC.

Thanks again!

 

Would you believe that Van and I agree on this topic?

The Scriptures are clear that, just as any sinful activity, there is danger by assuming intoxicants are God's blessing upon humankind.

Some would desire to use the term "moderation," as if that gives some approval by God.
The problem with that thinking is that it never ends with moderation. Just as pornography doesn't. Just as eating doesn't. Just as any fleshly desire doesn't.

Now, there has been a great many threads and discussion on this topic.

Why is it that those who want to be servants of the Holy God expect His authority to reside in the one who is controlled by the "spirits" of this world?

Such just isn't rational thinking much less found in the Scriptures.