Salvation by the work of attaining God’s attention

[carpro]

My point is that works are, indeed, at work in salvation, but not our works, God's. That is the meaning of Ephesians 2:8-9. Grace, faith, and salvation are all the gift of God. Christ's "work" was His payment for sin through His death on the Cross. This gift is given to those who were chosen (predestined) from eternity (Eph. 1:4). This is only possible if sinful man is utterly sinful, i.e. dead in sin (Eph. 2:1). If sinful man retains any disposition towards good, any moral free agency, then he can claim participation in his own salvation (Synergism).

Unnecessary Gobbledegook.

You'll never lead anyone to Christ with that approach.

Ephesians 2: 8-9 doesn't need your help. It can stand alone.

 

[TCassidy]

So are sit and sleep.

Yes. They are both something you DO!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

No verse says or suggests we are saved then given faith.

No indeed. We are given faith in order that we may be saved (e.g. Zechariah 12:10; Acts 16:14).

 

[Van]

Let us return to reality and truth. We are saved by grace through faith. Thus our faith provides the access to the grace in which we stand.

Next Martin claims we are given faith when scripture says it is our faith that is credited as righteousness.

Next scripture says we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth, thus no one could be chosen to be given faith, instead scripture says we are chosen for salvation on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness

Next Acts of the Apostles 16:14 is cited as indicating we are given faith. But she had faith in God, in fact she was a worshiper of God, and then we get the phrase "opened her heart." Naturally, the false theology folks say that means given faith, but all it means is the well chosen words of the gospel revealed the truth to her, and thus she embraced the gospel.

Finally, they point to an OT prophecy of the Holy Spirit being poured out which was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. The verse has nothing to do with being given faith before a person is saved through faith. That fiction has no support in scripture.

 

[Reformed]

Unnecessary Gobbledegook.

You'll never lead anyone to Christ with that approach.

Ephesians 2: 8-9 doesn't need your help. It can stand alone.

I have never lead anyone to Christ in the 5+ decades I’ve been alive. I have been privileged to see sinners converted while God has used me as a flawed human instrument to proclaim His word. Big difference.

The whole Bible stands alone, without need of human help. So, we do we bother discussing anything having to do with scripture?

And who do you know who shares the gospel with theological parlance? No one that I know.


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[Van]

Here is THE TRUTH!
Van posted:
“The ungodly lost spiritually dead individuals first put their wholehearted trust in Christ, and then if God credits that faith as righteousness, He transfers them into Christ where they undergo the circumcision of Christ, the washing of regeneration and arise in Christ a new creation, made righteous, blameless and perfect. Thus the justification occurs after God puts a believer into Christ.”
written by Van in this link

Van, it is you who by your own words are supporting a works based salvation.
t.

As I have posted before a salvation by grace through faith is not a works based salvation, just read Romans 4:2-5.

Pay no attention to false theology, which ignores scripture and pours man-made ideas into ambiguity.

 

[agedman]

As I have posted before a salvation by grace through faith is not a works based salvation, just read Romans 4:2-5.

Pay no attention to false theology, which ignores scripture and pours man-made ideas into ambiguity.

Van,
Did I not quote your own words accurately?

Are you prepared to acknowledge you were wrong in the view you presented by those words?

 

[Van]

My words say we are saved by grace through faith. Thus my words were right, and your charge is manufactured to change the subject from your false theology (saved by grace then given faith.)

1) You seem to deny God credits our faith as righteousness. Thus you deny Romans 4:4-5, and Romans 4:23-24.

2) You seem to deny a salvation on the bases of faith is not a works based salvation. Thus you deny Romans 4:2-5.

Bottom line your false charges will not hide your false theology.

 

[agedman]

My words say we are saved by grace through faith. Thus my words were right, and your charge is manufactured to change the subject from your false theology (saved by grace then given faith.)

1) You seem to deny God credits our faith as righteousness. Thus you deny Romans 4:4-5, and Romans 4:23-24.

2) You seem to deny a salvation on the bases of faith is not a works based salvation. Thus you deny Romans 4:2-5.

Bottom line your false charges will not hide your false theology.

Actually, Van your own words show the false that in some manner the unregenerate must FIRST having to work, make some effort, generate some action that is in some manner acceptable to God. THEN, having gotten God’s attention, IF God considers the work, effort, action meets some unknown standard will God take action.

Sadly, you attempt to condemn others as wrong, but I quoted your words. It is your own words that you have yet to recant.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Let us return to reality and truth. We are saved by grace through faith.

Yes.

Thus our faith provides the access to the grace in which we stand.

Yes.

Next Martin claims we are given faith

Yes.

when scripture says it is our faith that is credited as righteousness.

Yes.

Next scripture says we are chosen for salvation through faith in the truth,

Yes.

thus no one could be chosen to be given faith,

Why not? Is faith a work we have to do in order to qualify for God's grace? In that case grace is no longer grace.

instead scripture says we are chosen for salvation on the basis of God crediting our faith as righteousness

Yes.

Next Acts of the Apostles 16:14 is cited as indicating we are given faith. But she had faith in God, in fact she was a worshiper of God, and then we get the phrase "opened her heart." Naturally, the false theology folks say that means given faith, but all it means is the well chosen words of the gospel revealed the truth to her, and thus she embraced the gospel.

So you think Lydia was already a Christian when the Lord opened her heart? Do you know what a 'God-fearer' or God-worshipper' was and what those phrases meant in those times?

Finally, they point to an OT prophecy of the Holy Spirit being poured out which was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost. The verse has nothing to do with being given faith before a person is saved through faith.

A short part of Zechariah 12:10 is quoted in John 19:37, which covers the day of crucifixion rather than Pentecost. The verse speaks of prevenient grace, which you appear to deny. No one looks upon the crucified Saviour and prays to God for salvation until he receives the Spirit of grace and supplication (Ephesians 2:1-10 etc., etc.).

That fiction has no support in scripture.

Prevenient grace is taught extensively throughout the Bible. It is BTW by no means an exclusively Calvinist doctrine.

 

[carpro]

Yes. They are both something you DO!

Believe is also something you do.

Are you now also making a case for works based salvation?

 

[carpro]

I have never lead anyone to Christ in the 5+ decades I’ve been alive.


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I am not surprised. Nobody could understand what you were saying.

Pity.

 

[Revmitchell]

Responding to God ( believe) as God requires in scripture is not a work. Salvation is a gift. Gifts must be received. Receiving requires reaching out and taking hold. In all of history it has never been understood that reaching out and taking hold of the gift is also part of the giving.

 

[Van]

Actually, Van your own words show the false that in some manner the unregenerate must FIRST having to work, make some effort, generate some action that is in some manner acceptable to God. THEN, having gotten God’s attention, IF God considers the work, effort, action meets some unknown standard will God take action.

Sadly, you attempt to condemn others as wrong, but I quoted your words. It is your own words that you have yet to recant.

Lets see, Agedman says salvation by grace through faith is a works based salvation. Heard that before? Has he posted any scripture to support?

And not he ascribes this view to me, my own words, and denies salvation by grace through faith is biblical doctrine. That is false theology folks, down and dirty. Martin did point out faith comes FIRST, before salvation but Agedman seemingly has not grasped that post.

Pay no attention to Agedman who simply repreats falsehoods and ignores scripture, such as we are saved through faith.

 

[percho]

Responding to God ( believe) as God requires in scripture is not a work. Salvation is a gift. Gifts must be received. Receiving requires reaching out and taking hold. In all of history it has never been understood that reaching out and taking hold of the gift is also part of the giving.

In order to, be saved, to inherit eternal life, to enter the kingdom of God, "Y O U," yourself, have to reach out and take hold of , "IT." then in reality would you not be saving yourself, rather than being saved by God?

 

[Van]

Van said " no one could be chosen to be given faith,"

Why not? Is faith a work we have to do in order to qualify for God's grace? In that case grace is no longer grace.

On the one hand Martin says "Yes" to the truth faith provides our access to grace" yet in the same post says if faith is a work we have to do to qualify for God's grace, then grace is no longer grace. Total nonsense. Paul teaches (Romans 4:2-5) that a salvation through faith is of grace.

All these posters do is ignore scripture and write their own false doctrine.

 

[Revmitchell]

In order to, be saved, to inherit eternal life, to enter the kingdom of God, "Y O U," yourself, have to reach out and take hold of , "IT." then in reality would you not be saving yourself, rather than being saved by God?

When you receive a gift ( salvation) and y o u reach out to receive it are you also the giver?

 

[Van]

So you think Lydia was already a Christian when the Lord opened her heart? Do you know what a 'God-fearer' or God-worshipper' was and what those phrases meant in those times?

Yet another false claim with no quote. Did I say she was a christian? Nope. Did I say she worshiped God? Yes.
Here is what I actually said: Next Acts of the Apostles 16:14 is cited as indicating we are given faith. But she had faith in God, in fact she was a worshiper of God, and then we get the phrase "opened her heart." Naturally, the false theology folks say that means given faith, but all it means is the well chosen words of the gospel revealed the truth to her, and thus she embraced the gospel.

 

[Reformed]

I am not surprised. Nobody could understand what you were saying.

Pity.

I’ll gladly embrace your characterization of me. The moment I take credit for the fruit of my preaching is the moment I take the glory from God. I have been moved to tears witnessing the saving power of the gospel in spite of my limitations. Perhaps my preaching is unintelligible. Perhaps nobody can understand it. Perhaps it does take the ministry of the Holy Spirit to quicken the unregenerate heart in spite of my inability to communicate as well as you. I am grateful that you are a better communicator than I am. I say that with no hint of jealousy. I will gladly yield to my betters and trust that God, in His sovereignty, knows best. In the meantime I am thankful that He chooses to use clay pots that make the least sense from a human perspective.


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[Van]

A short part of Zechariah 12:10 is quoted in John 19:37, which covers the day of crucifixion rather than Pentecost. The verse speaks of prevenient grace, which you appear to deny. No one looks upon the crucified Saviour and prays to God for salvation until he receives the Spirit of grace and supplication (Ephesians 2:1-10 etc., etc.).

1) Did Martin say Zachariah 12:10 is not a prophecy of the Spirit being poured out?

2) Did any of these verses mention "prevenient grace?"

3) Does Ephesians 2:1-10 mention the "Spirit of Grace" as a prerequisite of faith?

This is all they have, bogus claims, bogus charges, and bogus theology.