Is God Unjust if Arminianism is true?

[thatbrian]

A Calvinist believes:

a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God chooses to show mercy to some of these evil, ungrateful, rebels.

No injustice.


An Arminian believes:

a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God sent His Son to make salvation possible, but countless millions live and dies without ever hearing His name. They effectively have no "chance" at salvation, while others are born into the homes of Godly men and are raised with the knowledge of Christ and His gospel. Still others have only a bad example of Christianity, e.g., legaiism, which causes them to reject it all together.

Infinate injustice.

 

[TCassidy]

Non sequitur.

 

[Reynolds]

A Calvinist believes:

a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God chooses to show mercy to some of these evil, ungrateful, rebels.

No injustice.


An Arminian believes:

a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God sent His Son to make salvation possible, but countless millions live and dies without ever hearing His name. They effectively have no "chance" at salvation, while others are born into the homes of Godly men and are raised with the knowledge of Christ and His gospel. Still others have only a bad example of Christianity, e.g., legaiism, which causes them to reject it all together.

Infinate injustice.

If you try to apply man's extremely flawed understanding of what is just; both equally fail. God is just. Our understanding is flawed.

 

[BobRyan]

A Calvinist believes:

a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God chooses to show mercy to some of these evil, ungrateful, rebels.

No injustice.

That is a nice story -- and would be true if it were not for the Word of God -- In the actual Bible
1. John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave ..--- yes really"
2. 2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish... yes really"
3. 2 John 2:2 "Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really"
4. God sent His Son to be the "Savior of the WORLD... yes really" 1 John 4:10-14

An Arminian believes: all those texts just listed



a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God sent His Son to make salvation possible for all mankind, then sends His Holy Spirit and "DRAWS ALL mankind unto Him" John 12:32 supernatural drawing of God enables all the "CHOICE" that depravity disabled.

John 16 "The holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment... yes really".

Calvinists will sometimes complain about these texts in the Bible by arguing ", but countless millions live and dies without ever hearing His name. " - in true salvation-by-best-story which does not work. Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in Matt 17 before He even goes to the cross. How much "of the full and complete story" did the thief on the cross know before he died?

Romans 10 reminds us of how this works.

So also does Romans 2:13-16 remind us of how gentiles who have no access to scripture at all - were being saved.

 

[TCassidy]

An Arminian believes: all those texts just listed

Both sides believe all the texts listed. It is just that one side understands the meaning of the words and the other side doesn't.

 

[rsr]

It is posts like this that needlessly divide us. God is just. Otherwise he would not deserve our worship.

Is the God of the Calvinists more just than the God of the Arminians? I am a reluctant Augustinian in soteriology, but I do not think the soteriology of the Arminians makes God unjust.

I applaud those who take their soteriology seriously but, given the revelation that God has seen fit to give us, to declare that one or the other makes God "unjust" is to go beyond the knowledge that he has given us. Some humility is in order for finite creatures attempting to understand an infinite God.

 

[InTheLight]

I just thank God every day that he predestined and chose to make me a non-Calvinist.

 

[BobRyan]

That is a nice story -- and would be true if it were not for the Word of God -- In the actual Bible
1. John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave ..--- yes really"
2. 2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish... yes really"
3. 2 John 2:2 "Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really"
4. God sent His Son to be the "Savior of the WORLD... yes really" 1 John 4:10-14

An Arminian believes: all those texts just listed

.

Both sides believe all the texts listed.

one would certainly hope so.

Funny that they never bring them up.

It is just that one side understands the meaning of the words and the other side doesn't.

That's what we keep sayin'

 

[BobRyan]

I just thank God every day that he predestined and chose to make me a non-Calvinist.

He predestined you to find the Bible errors in Calvinism an post them so all can see.

So even if you don't really want to do that... you're gonna have to do it anyway. No worries though because Calvinists will understand that you are predestined by the sovereign will of God to do it and they would not want to be arguing against God.

 

[BobRyan]

It is posts like this that needlessly divide us. God is just. Otherwise he would not deserve our worship.

Is the God of the Calvinists more just than the God of the Arminians? .

If doing what He claims is just and not doing what He claims is unjust .. then it only goes one way.

 

[Iconoclast]

"BobRyan,

1. John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave ..--- yes really"

ok

2. 2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish... yes really"

a falsehood found nowhere in the bible...God is more than willing that multitudes perish..Mt:7

3. 2 John 2:2 "Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really"

the sins of is not in the text




An Arminian believes: all those texts just listed

a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

ok

b) God sent His Son to make salvation possible for all mankind,

God does not make anything possible...He accomplished redemption...

So also does Romans 2:13-16 remind us of how gentiles who have no access to scripture at all - were being saved.

nonsense showing you do not understand biblical salvation.

 

[Iconoclast]

I just thank God every day that he predestined and chose to make me a non-Calvinist.

He did that very thing for Judas also. The sheep however were predestined...everyone of them.romans 8:29-30

 

[utilyan]

"BobRyan,


ok

a falsehood found nowhere in the bible...God is more than willing that multitudes perish..Mt:7



the sins of is not in the text




An Arminian believes: all those texts just listed




ok



God does not make anything possible...He accomplished redemption...



nonsense showing you do not understand biblical salvation.

God commands who to sin? In other words who does he want to perish?

 

[Iconoclast]

God commands who to sin? In other words who does he want to perish?

At the white throne judgment multitudes will be cast into second death.In Mt7:21-24...the word for many....is multitudes....
No one said anything about God commanding anyone to sin.
In 2pet3....God is long suffering with wicked people in order that everyone of His sheep will be born, and saving my drawn to faith...He is long suffering TO-USWARD...not willing that any elected person perish.

 

[utilyan]

At the white throne judgment multitudes will be cast into second death.In Mt7:21-24...the word for many....is multitudes....
No one said anything about God commanding anyone to sin.
In 2pet3....God is long suffering with wicked people in order that everyone of His sheep will be born, and saving my drawn to faith...He is long suffering TO-USWARD...not willing that any elected person perish.

"No one said anything about God commanding anyone to sin."

Ok, so its settled, God doesn't want anyone to perish, Because he commands no one to sin.

If God commands you to sit down its probably because he doesn't want you to stand up, I know this can be over some peoples head logic-wise.

 

[Iconoclast]

"No one said anything about God commanding anyone to sin."

Ok, so its settled, God doesn't want anyone to perish, Because he commands no one to sin.

If God commands you to sit down its probably because he doesn't want you to stand up, I know this can be over some peoples head logic-wise.

Let me give you a clue.....set your logic aside....look at scripture and see how God intends to punish all sin. That is not over your head but finds you in the cross hairs.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is posts like this that needlessly divide us. God is just. Otherwise he would not deserve our worship.

Is the God of the Calvinists more just than the God of the Arminians? I am a reluctant Augustinian in soteriology, but I do not think the soteriology of the Arminians makes God unjust.

I applaud those who take their soteriology seriously but, given the revelation that God has seen fit to give us, to declare that one or the other makes God "unjust" is to go beyond the knowledge that he has given us. Some humility is in order for finite creatures attempting to understand an infinite God.

Supreme irony to me is that those who hate how Calvinism views it are being saved by the same theology they despise!

 

[utilyan]

Let me give you a clue.....set your logic aside....look at scripture and see how God intends to punish all sin. That is not over your head but finds you in the cross hairs.

Sorry your not talking to coward, Just because one would grovel to anything that would kick their rear doesn't mean I do.
I don't negotiate with terrorist, mortal or divine.

My God is not an idiot who gets his kicks from torture of others.
My God is not a Nazi fascist.
My God can teach the worst sinner how to be a saint better then you can teach anyone to tie their own shoe.

God commands you not to sin, so how do you figure he wants you to sin?

This is not rocket science. The problem is you want hypocritical double standards just like pharisees did. No one can stop God when God wants what you want, But then that law doesn't hold up when God wants something YOU DON'T WANT.


God commands you not to sin, so how do you figure he wants you to sin?

 

[Iconoclast]

Sorry your not talking to coward, Just because one would grovel to anything that would kick their rear doesn't mean I do.
I don't negotiate with terrorist, mortal or divine.

My God is not an idiot who gets his kicks from torture of others.
My God is not a Nazi fascist.
My God can teach the worst sinner how to be a saint better then you can teach anyone to tie their own shoe.

God commands you not to sin, so how do you figure he wants you to sin?

This is not rocket science. The problem is you want hypocritical double standards just like pharisees did. No one can stop God when God wants what you want, But then that law doesn't hold up when God wants something YOU DON'T WANT.


God commands you not to sin, so how do you figure he wants you to sin?

I was speaking of the biblical God, not the God of your imagination.

 

[utilyan]

I was speaking of the biblical God, not the God of your imagination.

The Biblical God is pure good not evil. When he commands something it means that is what he wants done.