Is God Unjust if Arminianism is true?

[thatbrian]

THE OP. Calvinist God is more merciful then Armenian. LOL best joke I heard all day.

#1 the majority of Christians subscribe to neither Calvinism nor Armenian.

The OP was like Lipstick on the most hideous ugly woman in the world.

HATE the sinner, not the sin. <---Calvinism.

There is more then 2 options. Example:

Calvinism is NOT AT ALL like Nazis. Nazis and Calvinist share NOTHING in common at all.

With Nazi God predestined a Master-race. A chosen elect on a list. Non-Aryans are "rightfully" sent to hell.

With Nazi Jesus only died for Aryans, that is only Aryans should be saved, All other depraved go to the death camps.

Only Nazi Aryans can properly interpret the bible because all others have a depraved mind.

Once an Aryan always a Aryan. If you were born elect Aryan its because God loves you. But if you had no choice and were born as a non-aryan, well thats "justice", God after all could have easily decided not to make any Aryans at all.

So see, Nazis are Nothing nothing nothing at all like Calvinist.

First, the OP is regarding Justice, not mercy. Second, rants are not arguments. Third, you won't dismiss me with ad hominem attacks. They only prove one of two things. Either you don't understand the subject well enough to argue it with them, or you do understand the subject well enough to understand that you are on the losing side of it, so you play the Nazi card in order to deflect and distract.

 

[utilyan]

First, the OP is regarding Justice, not mercy. Second, rants are not arguments. Third, you won't dismiss me with ad hominem attacks. They only prove one of two things. Either you don't understand the subject well enough to argue it with them, or you do understand the subject well enough to understand that you are on the losing side of it, so you play the Nazi card in order to deflect and distract.

No i'm showing perspectives. Like I said Nazi's are NOT like Calvinist. "nazi card" lol is it THAT COMMON? as to earn a card?

I said Nazis are not like Calvinist, was something I said offensive? How is saying Nazis are not like calvinist a ad hominen attack?




You were limited to only two options.

For example someone comes at you, I believe God is totally supreme sovereignty so If you are not of my faith then you must not believe God is supreme.


Heres the sneaky play your making on the Amrenians:

" but countless millions live and dies without ever hearing His name. They effectively have no "chance" at salvation,"


I guess no preaching of the gospel is necessary with Calvinism. Because according to you a weakness of Armenian stance is that people don't hear the gospel, have NO CHANCE and you equate that as injustice.

This implies that Calvinist don't need to hear the gospel.


Please..... Calvinism is justice?

Yes Calvinism is absolute true Justice.

Much UNLIKE how Nazis believe it is true Justice just because you were chosen to be born Aryan, which is hitler-god's PURE JUSTICE, to pick some for his master race and others for burning in the death camps below the earth.

I agree, Calvinism is pure Justice.


I don't see Calvinist and Nazis having anything remotely in common. LOL!

 

[thatbrian]

Well, I got to test two things this morning. First, I got to see how the "ignore" feature works.

Second, I tested my Bible memorization, and it has paid off. Proverbs 26:4 came directly to mind this morning.

 

[utilyan]

Well, I finally get to see how the "ignore" feature works. . .

The word ignorant comes from ignore.

 

[Yeshua1]

Disapointing that no one really adressed the issue posed in the OP.

If the only way man can be saved is by faith in the work of Christ, and mankind is left to come to this faith without ever hearing of the name of Jesus, then God is unjust. There have been countless millions who have lived and died without ever hearing the gospel. Also, there have been many millions who have heard a distorted gospel, and millions more who have heard a false gospel.

If our salvation was left to chance, and we were born in a mountain village in China 500 years ago, we had no "chance".

This even assumes that sinners desire a God they hate, which is yet another insurmountable problem for Arminians. . .

Those who never heard of Jesus stand condemned by rejecting the light that the Lord sent unto them though...
Those under the law will be judged by that standard, and those who are "ignorant" of jesus will be judged by how they rejected the light God gave unto them, as NONE will be without cause judged guilty before Holy God!

 

[thatbrian]

Those who never heard of Jesus stand condemned by rejecting the light that the Lord sent unto them though...
Those under the law will be judged by that standard, and those who are "ignorant" of jesus will be judged by how they rejected the light God gave unto them, as NONE will be without cause judged guilty before Holy God!

I understand and agree; however, there are many who say that God gives everyone the same "chance" at salvation. They are wrong, of course, but they call Calvinism "unfair". I'm here to say that the Arminian and Pelagian positions are infinitely unfair/unjust because not all people have had the same opportunity, and millions have had no opportunity to hear the gospel. Of course I know that God chose to reveal Himself to His elect; however, many would disagree, and I would like for them to defend their position which leads to no other conclusion than that their God is unjust.

 

[utilyan]

Luke 12

47“And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more.

This makes no sense in Calvinism. Because to whom most is given LESS IS REQUIRED!

 

[thatbrian]

I guess all of the non-Calvinists have left the building. Is no one able to defend their belief system in regard to the OP?

 

[utilyan]

I guess all of the non-Calvinists have left the building. Is no one able to defend their belief system in regard to the OP?

You mean you just put folks on ignore when your tail is between your legs.

 

[BobRyan]

thatbrian said: ↑
A Calvinist believes:

a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God chooses to show mercy to some of these evil, ungrateful, rebels.

No injustice.

That is a nice story -- and would be true if it were not for the Word of God -- In the actual Bible
1. John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave ..--- yes really"
2. 2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish... yes really"
3. 2 John 2:2 "Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really"
4. God sent His Son to be the "Savior of the WORLD... yes really" 1 John 4:10-14

An Arminian believes: all those texts just listed



a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God sent His Son to make salvation possible for all mankind, then sends His Holy Spirit and "DRAWS ALL mankind unto Him" John 12:32 supernatural drawing of God enables all the "CHOICE" that depravity disabled.

John 16 "The holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment... yes really".

Calvinists will sometimes complain about these texts in the Bible by arguing ", but countless millions live and dies without ever hearing His name. " - in true salvation-by-best-story which does not work. Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in Matt 17 before He even goes to the cross. How much "of the full and complete story" did the thief on the cross know before he died?

Romans 10 reminds us of how this works.

So also does Romans 2:13-16 remind us of how gentiles who have no access to scripture at all - were being saved.

Both sides believe all the texts listed. .

We will now test that suggestion.

"BobRyan,

a falsehood found nowhere in the bible...God is more than willing that multitudes perish..Mt:7

the sins of is not in the text

God does not make anything possible...He accomplished redemption...

nonsense showing you do not understand biblical salvation.

Well so then you did reject those texts after all.

And also - Matthew 7 does NOT say "God is willing that the many should perish"

2 Peter 3 DOES say "God is NOT willing that ANY should perish"

 

[Iconoclast]

That is a nice story -- and would be true if it were not for the Word of God -- In the actual Bible
1. John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave ..--- yes really"
2. 2 Peter 3 "God is not WILLING that any should perish... yes really"
3. 2 John 2:2 "Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD... yes really"
4. God sent His Son to be the "Savior of the WORLD... yes really" 1 John 4:10-14

An Arminian believes: all those texts just listed



a) ALL men have sinned against a holy God; therefore, they deserve condemnation.

b) God sent His Son to make salvation possible for all mankind, then sends His Holy Spirit and "DRAWS ALL mankind unto Him" John 12:32 supernatural drawing of God enables all the "CHOICE" that depravity disabled.

John 16 "The holy Spirit convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment... yes really".

Calvinists will sometimes complain about these texts in the Bible by arguing ", but countless millions live and dies without ever hearing His name. " - in true salvation-by-best-story which does not work. Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in Matt 17 before He even goes to the cross. How much "of the full and complete story" did the thief on the cross know before he died?

Romans 10 reminds us of how this works.

So also does Romans 2:13-16 remind us of how gentiles who have no access to scripture at all - were being saved.



We will now test that suggestion.



Well so then you did reject those texts after all.

And also - Matthew 7 does NOT say "God is willing that the many should perish"

2 Peter 3 DOES say "God is NOT willing that ANY should perish"

Not when you quote the whole verse......you are wilfully ignorant of this TRUTH.....to usward......not one person Peter speaks of will perish....not one.
God has decreed, destined, and purposed not one of these elect persons will be lost.

 

[Yeshua1]

I understand and agree; however, there are many who say that God gives everyone the same "chance" at salvation. They are wrong, of course, but they call Calvinism "unfair". I'm here to say that the Arminian and Pelagian positions are infinitely unfair/unjust because not all people have had the same opportunity, and millions have had no opportunity to hear the gospel. Of course I know that God chose to reveal Himself to His elect; however, many would disagree, and I would like for them to defend their position which leads to no other conclusion than that their God is unjust.

The good news is that the Lord will get the Gospel to his own elect in Christ that need to hear it!

 

[thatbrian]

The good news is that the Lord will get the Gospel to his own elect in Christ that need to hear it!

Yes. He will. He will not fail to save one of the elect.