John 3:16

Does scripture actually say this is so? Of course Christ was sin less. Yet how could He be tempted as we are if He didn't have a sin nature?. If Adam had a sin nature which I don't believe he did. Then how was he tempted?
MB

 

Adam was created good, but not incorruptible. Adam could do no evil, unless he was first corrupted. Then he could do no good.

Christ is incorruptible, as is that which is born in us that believe in Him.

 

TCassidy, wrote:

>This is the way God loved His κοσμον, His ordered people (1 Corinthians 14:40)

Isn't people plural for person?

>The discussion hinges on whether the word is used in the individual or collective sense.

>I think we are pretty much in agreement with the possible exception of whether we see "anyone" as individual or collective.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16.

"as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48.

Do these scriptures need to be reconciled, in order to get a clear understanding of the subject
at hand?

 

Here some Calvinists would have us believe, that the Greek word, “kosmos”, which is rendered “world” in all English versions of the Bible, should take on a limited, special sense of the world. It is assumed, that, because there are instances in Scripture, where “kosmos” is used in the sense, where the entire world is not intended (and I will not deny that this is indeed true), that this warrants this limited use in our present text. Is this a valid argument? The present context will prove beyond any doubt, that this is not only not the case, but, if the Calvinist would press this limited meaning here, to apply only to the “elect”, then it causes them problems.

Firstly, it might be shown, that there is not a single Greek lexicon that I know of, that says that “kosmos” here has a meaning that does not mean the “whole world” (that is, “everyone without exception).

J H Thayer

“the inhabitants of the earth, the human race” (Lexicon, p.357)

W Ardnt & F Gingrich

“the world as mankind…of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the objects of God’s love” (Lexicon, p.447)

Edward Robinson

“the world for the inhabitants of the earth, men mankind” (Lexicon, p.440)

John Parkhurst

“The world, i.e. the whole race of mankind, both believers and unbelievers, both good and bad” (Lexicon, p.336)

Are we to assume that all of the above lexicons are wrong in the meanings that they give for “kosmos”? There is no doubt to the honest mind, that the use of “kosmos” here can only mean “the whole human race”. To make it mean something less, is a distortion of the facts!

In our immediate context, “kosmos” is used four times, once in verse 16, and three times in verse 17. If we were to limit its use in verse 16, to refer only to the “elect”, then we must carry on this use in the following verse also. Where we read:

“For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved”

Let is substitute the word “world” in each of these cases with “elect”, and see how it reads.

“For God did not send His Son into the elect to condemn the elect, but that the elect through Him might be saved”

If, as it is argued by some, that Christ only came to save the “elect”, then why would any mention ever be made about Him coming to “condemn”, or “judge” the “elect”? These words have no meaning at all, if they are meant to be for the “elect” only. There would not be any reference made to any judgement or condemnation of the “elect”, as this is something that is not at all even a possibility. John 5: 24 says:

"Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life”

The believer is said not to come into any “judgment”, or “condemnation”, as they have “passed from death into life”, which has already said to have taken place, when the sinner trusted in Jesus for their salvation.

Further, in verse 17 we read, that “the elect might be saved through Him” Here we have the Greek “sothe” (might be saved), which is in the subjunctive mood, which is used to denote “possibility”, in that it is not something “certain”. It is true, that as in verses 15 and 16, where the word apoletai (KJV “should not perish) is used, it is with the “hina” clause, which, though in the subjunctive mood, is yet in both cases “certain”, because in each case the negative “me” (me_apoletai) is used. This will then render the clause as “shall not perish”. However, in verse 17, even though “sothe” is used with “hina” (hina sothe), there is no negative particle used as in verse 15 and 16, which would require the clause to have the meaning of “possibility”, which is correctly rendered in English as “might be saved” Does this then mean, that the salvation of the “elect” is only a “possibility”? If we are to take the words to mean “shall be saved”, then we would expect Jesus to have said: “sothese”, as in Romans 10:9, “ That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.”

We should note, that in verses 15 and 16, “believes”, is in the Greek, “pisteuno”, which is the present, continuance, tense, literally, “continues to believe”.

We can only conclude from these facts, that there is no Biblical justification for us to take “kosmos” the this passage, to mean anything other than “the sum total of the human race”, and NOT as the Calvinist would have us believe, because of their theological bias found in the heresy of “Limited Atonement”, that it only refers to the “elect”. Can any honest mind doubt that this great passage is the hope of mankind, for salvation through our Great Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ?

John Calvin, had this to say on this verse:

“That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.”

Calvin’s own language is what is not used by any “Calvinist” who believes in “Limited Atonement”. “all men without distinction” is the language that a “Calvinist” would use, so as to distort what the Bible actually teaches, yet the “Calvinists” own “leader”, John Calvin, himself believed that Jesus Christ dies for THE WHOLE WORLD, that is, EVERY HUMAN BEING!

This can also be seen from Calvin's comments on Mark 14:24;

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race"

Hardly a "Limited Atonement"!

Dr Robert Dabney, who was a Calvinist, has this to say on the use of “kosmos” here:

“In Jno.iii.16, make ‘the world’ which Christ loved, to mean ‘the elect world’, and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish…since Christ made expiation for every man” (Systematic Theology, p.525)

 

Richard Trench, in his Synonyms of the New Testament, has a very important definition of the Greek word, "πειράζω" (to try, attempt, test)

"But the word itself enters on another stage of meaning. The melancholy fact that men so often break down under
temptation gives to peirazein a predominant sense of putting to the proof with the intention and the hope that
the ‘proved’ may not turn out ‘approved,’ but ‘reprobate’; may break down under the proof; and thus the word is constantly applied to the solicitations and suggestions of Satan (Matt. iv. i; 1 Cor. vii. 5; Rev. ii. 10), which are always made with such a malicious hope, he himself bearing the name of ‘The Tempter’ (Matt. iv. 3; Thess. 5), and evermore revealing himself as such (Gen. iii. 1, 4, 5; I Chron. xxi. I) "

 

I don't understand what you mean by, "Christ was not from Adam"? The entire human race is from Adam and Eve, who are the first parents. This includes Mary, who was the mother of Jesus Christ, from whom Jesus derived His "human nature", apart from any sin. While it is true that Joseph was not the "biological" father of Jesus Christ, yet Mary was indeed His "biological" mother. There is no Scripture evidence to suggest that our "sinfulness" comes from Adam, and not from BOTH our first parents? Jesus could not have sinned, as He is the eternal God Who took upon Himself the complete "nature" of a human, apart form any sinfulness, and thus became the God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man.

 

Sounds like great "theology", but can you show from Scripture where Jesus was not born from Adam? Did you look at the Genealogy of Jesus as recorded by Luke, where he clearly states that Jesus was "the Son of Adam" (3:38)? Is this incorrect? Clearly this teaches that Jesus' human lineage through Mary, is traced right back to Adam!

 

TULIP was not initiated by Calvin, but by others who came after him.

The Atonement is sufficient for all, but efficacious only for those who believe.
Otherwise, ALL would be saved--and we're not Universalists, right?

 

Why do you have to use condescending language? You seem to know a lot about me? Why would I want to study using some man-made "canon" when I have the Scriptures? 2 Peter 2:1 very clearly says that Jesus Christ died also for those who reject Him, which can hardly be the "elect". I have read a few twisters on this verse, and none deal with the truth of the text!

 

Not really. Universal Atonement does not equate to Universal Salvation, this is a false argument used by some to twist the facts of Scripture. Its like the fact that God knows everything, which some have distorted to mean that He "ordains" everything! Where does this leave sin?, It makes God the author, which is not possible!

 

I won't be interacting with you any more.

 

Read the (shorter) Westminster Confession.

Some are saved or all are saved. The elect (the believing) are saved. The rest receive God's Justice. There is
no injustice with God.

 

Can you please post your own findings from Scripture? As "Election" as taught by the Reformed and Calvinists, is not what the Holy Bible teaches. Israel was indeed the "elect" nation in the Old Testament, whom God had "chosen" above all other nations, for His own. And yet, the Book of Jonah is a very clear example of God's saving Grace to a nation that was very hostile to Him and sworn enemies of His beloved Israel! This Book shows that "God so loves the WHOLE WORLD" (my translation), and is not willing that any of this WORLD is lost, but desires their salvation. This Great Bible Truth is distorted by the "Reformers", and others who base their "theology" on what some men taught, and not on the Bible!