War On The Sinner's Prayer by Paul Washer

[Revmitchell]

So good ole Washer has declared war on the sinners prayer because "it has done more to send people to hell than anything on the face of the earth" (starts about 1:17)

Question:

Is such an idea true Calvinist doctrine? Seems as if it would be contrary to the Calvinist idea of election? Is Washer being consistent when he said this?

 

[TCassidy]

No, he's being an idiot. The "sinners prayer" is just as much a confirmation of God having just worked a miracle of regeneration in a person's soul as others may think it to be the cause of such regeneration. In either case the person is saved. Washer is just jumping on the popular bandwagon after running out of "new" things to preach about.

 

[InTheLight]

(3:32) "The evidence of conversion is not just your examination of your sincerity at the moment of your conversion, it is ongoing fruit in your life!"

So, it's work-based salvation. It's you needing to do something to make sure you're saved. You're not converted when you are converted, you are converted in an ongoing process of doing good works!

 

[InTheLight]

No, he's being an idiot. The "sinners prayer" is just as much a confirmation of God having just worked a miracle of regeneration in a person's soul as others may think it to be the cause of such regeneration. In either case the person is saved. Washer is just jumping on the popular bandwagon after running out of "new" things to preach about.

Washer seems to be saying that God is sovereign and all-powerful to save, unless someone is moved to pray this prayer. Then it's a false conversion, God doesn't save people that way.

 

[TCassidy]

Washer seems to be saying that God is sovereign and all-powerful to save, unless someone is moved to pray this prayer. Then it's a false conversion, God doesn't save people that way.

That's what it sounds like. But at least he is consistent. This is the obvious and logical next step in his badly flawed understanding of Lordship Salvation.

We don't make Christ Lord of our lives. He is ALREADY Lord of our lives.

 

[Revmitchell]

So good ole Washer has declared war on the sinners prayer because "it has done more to send people to hell than anything on the face of the earth" (starts about 1:17)

Question:

Is such an idea true Calvinist doctrine? Seems as if it would be contrary to the Calvinist idea of election? Is Washer being consistent when he said this?

My point is that you cannot reasonably say that God elects individuals from the foundation of the world and also say that anything like the sinners prayer is the cause of people going to hell. That is inconsistent.

 

[agedman]

I disagree with his statement concerning the prayer sending people to hell. That is just not consistent with any teaching, much less Calvinist folks.

However, is it not true that great damage has been done in this matter of salvation when someone is left with the thinking that a prayer is the key to unlock heaven?

Washer is correct that there is that certain evidence of salvation that is a intricate part of the believer, nor typically evidenced in unbelievers except by self adjustment and modeling.

He is also correct in calling alarm to the tactic being abused.

Could it be that the modern church by accepting the prayer without life change has become weaker and less willing to shine an uncompromising light into the community?

Are believers to not make judgment of ourselves to see if we be "in the faith?"

Perhaps Washer is right but presenting the matter wrongly packaged?

 

[Yeshua1]

No, he's being an idiot. The "sinners prayer" is just as much a confirmation of God having just worked a miracle of regeneration in a person's soul as others may think it to be the cause of such regeneration. In either case the person is saved. Washer is just jumping on the popular bandwagon after running out of "new" things to preach about.

I think that Paul Washer looks upon any salvation that claims to have used the sinner prayer as not being legit, as I think he is really into more of a Lordship salvation theology.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Before anyone condemns Washer out of hand, he should read Acts 26:19-20.
However, although he may have a point in America and elsewhere, in Britain it's quite different. As I go door-to-door sometimes I meet Christians from other churches. When we do, we usually ask them, "If you were to die tomorrow, how confident are you that you would go to heaven?" And almost invariably they reply, "Well, I hope I've done enough." It's not just Roman Catholics and Anglicans who answer that way, but Baptists as well. They think they have to be saved by works.

 

[Tim71]

(3:32) "The evidence of conversion is not just your examination of your sincerity at the moment of your conversion, it is ongoing fruit in your life!"

So, it's work-based salvation. It's you needing to do something to make sure you're saved. You're not converted when you are converted, you are converted in an ongoing process of doing good works!

I believe you may have misunderstood what he was saying. I believe he was saying If an individual is saved, that individual will be conforming to the likeness of Jesus Christ as he grows in grace.

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

I don't know what Paul Washer's intent is. But I believe it is this:

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

My point is that you cannot reasonably say that God elects individuals from the foundation of the world and also say that anything like the sinners prayer is the cause of people going to hell. That is inconsistent.

God does elect people for salvation. Scripture plainly teaches that.

John 6:44 affirms that God draws the elect.

I'm not completely opposed to the sinners prayer. I do oppose the idea that people can say predefined words and come out believing they are saved. The elect come to God in many ways.

 

[Aaron]

(3:32) "The evidence of conversion is not just your examination of your sincerity at the moment of your conversion, it is ongoing fruit in your life!"

I didn't watch the video, but who in the world can be assured of salvation by looking at themselves?

I look at Christ, and Him crucified. I must. There is no hope or assurance anywhere else.

What if this present were the world’s last night?
Mark in my heart, O soul, where thou dost dwell,
The picture of Christ crucified, and tell
Whether that countenance can thee affright,
Tears in his eyes quench the amazing light,
Blood fills his frowns, which from his pierced head fell.
And can that tongue adjudge thee unto hell,
Which prayed forgiveness for his foes’ fierce spite?
No, no; but as in my idolatry
I said to all my profane mistresses,
Beauty, of pity, foulness only is
A sign of rigour: so I say to thee,
To wicked spirits are horrid shapes assigned,
This beauteous form assures a piteous mind.

—John Donne​

 

[JonC]

2 Corinthians 13:5-6
Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test.

 

[Iconoclast]

So good ole Washer has declared war on the sinners prayer because "it has done more to send people to hell than anything on the face of the earth" (starts about 1:17)

Question:

Is such an idea true Calvinist doctrine? Seems as if it would be contrary to the Calvinist idea of election? Is Washer being consistent when he said this?

Yes..it is true Calvinist doctrine as salvation happens in time using means [correct means, correct results]...[wrong means wrong results].

 

[Revmitchell]

God does elect people for salvation. Scripture plainly teaches that.

John 6:44 affirms that God draws the elect.

I'm not completely opposed to the sinners prayer. I do oppose the idea that people can say predefined words and come out believing they are saved. The elect come to God in many ways.

So how can a Calvinist like Washer say the sinners prayer sends people to hell when he holds to determinism much like yourself

 

[Iconoclast]

TCassidy,

No, he's being an idiot.

I disagree with you here. Paul Washer is more on it than not.

The "sinners prayer" is

Part of Finney's new measures....which he himself said he would not do if he had a chance to do it again.

just as much a confirmation of God having just worked a miracle of regeneration in a person's soul as others may think it to be the cause of such regeneration.

Somewhere along the line sinners pray...sinners "come to Christ" "sinners repent" " sinners believe"....
Believers baptism is the God given public testimony of a saving belief....
Paul Washer is perhaps thing of the parable of the sower in which several "made a false profession"

18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

In either case the person is saved.

I do not think you or anyone else can make such a pronouncement TC...not in light of this parable...

Washer is just jumping on the popular bandwagon after running out of "new" things to preach about.

It is popular because of the failed invitation system which is creating religious goats, more than finding sheep.
Thankfully God saves who he will.

 

[Iconoclast]

So how can a Calvinist like Washer say the sinners prayer sends people to hell when he holds to determinism much like yourself

Still getting it wrong...Calvinists do not believe in a fatalistic determinism.

 

[HankD]

Oh well, woe is me?

After reading through the gospel of John several times i read this:

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

I used those same words to answer Jesus although at that point I am sure I already believed. However that is the point in time i remember as if it were 10 minutes ago.

Even though I was in upstate NY, at night I could get Wheeling WV on my superheterodyne and God used a WV gospel preacher to introduce me to the Savior of the world.

But my prayer was only four words "yes Lord I believe".

What are we supposed to do after regeneration? Cartwheels down the aisle?
Anyway, I was in my barracks (well in my room, we were in officers quarters even though we were enlisted).

HankD

 

[Revmitchell]

Oh well, woe is me?

After reading through the gospel of John several times i read this:

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

I used those same words to answer Jesus although at that point I am sure I already believed. However that is the point in time i remember as if it were 10 minutes ago.

Even though I was in upstate NY, at night I could get Wheeling WV on my superheterodyne and God used a WV gospel preacher to introduce me to the Savior of the world.

But my prayer was only four words "yes Lord I believe".

What are we supposed to do after regeneration? Cartwheels down the aisle?
Anyway, I was in my barracks (well in my room, we were in officers quarters even though we were enlisted).

HankD

So is his statement that the sinners prayer in line and consistent with his deterministic doctrine?