War On The Sinner's Prayer by Paul Washer

[HankD]

So is his statement that the sinners prayer in line and consistent with his deterministic doctrine?

VERY inconsistent IMO.

HankD

 

[Reformed]

Knowing Paul Washer the way I do, I am confident he was calling out the error inherent in the sinner's prayer. Washer does not believe a person who prays the prayer is not saved. He believes the prayer does not save. Sinner's are saved in spite of the prayer, not because of it. To make that point, as he does others, he speaks in definite terms that are often misunderstood. It probably didn't enter his mind to qualify his statements for those on a message board who are intent on dissecting his words.

In the Reformed tradition we are looking more at one's confession and evidence of faith. Words alone are insufficient. Preachers like Charles Finney were skilled at illiciting "decisions for Christ" with many of their "converts" going back to the world.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Revmitchell]

I think that Paul Washer looks upon any salvation that claims to have used the sinner prayer as not being legit, as I think he is really into more of a Lordship salvation theology.

Is his claim that the sinners prayer sends people to hell consistent with his deterministic theology?

 

[Revmitchell]

Before anyone condemns Washer out of hand, he should read Acts 26:19-20.
However, although he may have a point in America and elsewhere, in Britain it's quite different. As I go door-to-door sometimes I meet Christians from other churches. When we do, we usually ask them, "If you were to die tomorrow, how confident are you that you would go to heaven?" And almost invariably they reply, "Well, I hope I've done enough." It's not just Roman Catholics and Anglicans who answer that way, but Baptists as well. They think they have to be saved by works.

Is his claim that the sinners prayer has done more to send people to hell than anything else consistent with his deterministic theology?

 

[Mr. Davis]

I believe you may have misunderstood what he was saying. I believe he was saying If an individual is saved, that individual will be conforming to the likeness of Jesus Christ as he grows in grace.

Paul opens 1 Cor mentioning that the believers are sanctified. [positionally] This includes the worldly (carnal) Christians of Chap. 3. These ones are still babes in Christ. [born again, but with little or no growth] "Every man's work shall be made manifest:...revealed by fire...If any man's work abide...he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." vss. 1-3, 13-15.

Babes in Christ have a likeness of Him. But when He appears, all believers will look just like Him! (Php 3:21; 1 Jn 3:2)

Rewards (of great value) will be given to the mature, faithful, and holy believers for their service on earth.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Is his claim that the sinners prayer has done more to send people to hell than anything else consistent with his deterministic theology?

Oh yes. God's sovereignty does not override man's responsibility. God's elect will certainly be saved (John 6:39), but they will not be saved without someone bringing the truth to them (Romans 10:14-15). Exactly how that works, I don't know, but it's what the Bible teaches

 

[Revmitchell]

Oh yes. God's sovereignty does not override man's responsibility. God's elect will certainly be saved (John 6:39), but they will not be saved without someone bringing the truth to them (Romans 10:14-15). Exactly how that works, I don't know, but it's what the Bible teaches

I don't know how this relates to my question.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So good ole Washer has declared war on the sinners prayer because "it has done more to send people to hell than anything on the face of the earth" (starts about 1:17)

Question:

Is such an idea true Calvinist doctrine? Seems as if it would be contrary to the Calvinist idea of election? Is Washer being consistent when he said this?

why is Calvinism so important, when it is Biblically unsound?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

No, he's being an idiot. The "sinners prayer" is just as much a confirmation of God having just worked a miracle of regeneration in a person's soul as others may think it to be the cause of such regeneration. In either case the person is saved. Washer is just jumping on the popular bandwagon after running out of "new" things to preach about.

How can you call him an idiot?

 

[InTheLight]

Oh yes. God's sovereignty does not override man's responsibility. God's elect will certainly be saved (John 6:39), but they will not be saved without someone bringing the truth to them (Romans 10:14-15). Exactly how that works, I don't know, but it's what the Bible teaches

It's a mystery. The last refuge of the Calvinist when their theological position is put into a corner.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Oh yes. God's sovereignty does not override man's responsibility. God's elect will certainly be saved (John 6:39), but they will not be saved without someone bringing the truth to them (Romans 10:14-15). Exactly how that works, I don't know, but it's what the Bible teaches

don't forget the "non-elect", many who will also be saved!

 

[Mr. Davis]

Oh yes. God's sovereignty does not override man's responsibility. God's elect will certainly be saved (John 6:39), but they will not be saved without someone bringing the truth to them (Romans 10:14-15). Exactly how that works, I don't know, but it's what the Bible teaches

So, God is responsible for the salvation of the elect. They respond, only because of His inward working. None of them will be lost for any reason. God's Will is unstoppable. HE will use every means to reach the elect, some means only He knows in His Great Omniscience. The Bible is His revealed Will. His Sovereign Will includes this and that which is known only to Him.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So, God is responsible for the salvation of the elect. They respond, only because of His inward working. None of them will be lost for any reason. God's Will is unstoppable. HE will use every means to reach the elect, some of which only He knows in His Great Omniscience. The Bible is His revealed Will. His Sovereign Will includes this and that which is known only to Him.

So the "elect" are no more than a bunch of puppets!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So, God is responsible for the salvation of the elect. They respond, only because of His inward working. None of them will be lost for any reason. God's Will is unstoppable. HE will use every means to reach the elect, some of which only He knows in His Great Omniscience. The Bible is His revealed Will. His Sovereign Will includes this and that which is known only to Him.

InTheLight, no mystery, Right?

And, Saved-By-Grace, since God is Sovereign, no non-elect will be saved, Right?

In the Old Testament, the Jewish Nation were God's "elect". Yet, we have examples, like the people of Nineveh, who were not part of this "elect" people, also obtain slavation from God. We have Rahab, who also was not Jewish, and yet she is part of the family line of Jesus Christ! I think "ἐκλεκτός" is taken too far by the likes of Calvinists, because of "theology" rather than what the Bible actually teaches!

 

[Mr. Davis]

In the Old Testament, the Jewish Nation were God's "elect". Yet, we have examples, like the people of Nineveh, who were not part of this "elect" people, also obtain slavation from God. We have Rahab, who also was not Jewish, and yet she is part of the family line of Jesus Christ! I think "ἐκλεκτός" is taken too far by the likes of Calvinists, because of "theology" rather than what the Bible actually teaches!

You sadly forget that the OT saints (elect), are all of whom you mention above.

Specifically, Rahab had faith (Heb 11:31). Where does faith come from? Isn't it a gift from the Sovereign God? She then, is ELECT!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You sadly forget that the OT saints (elect), are all of whom you mention above.

Specifically, Rahab had faith (Heb 11:31). Where does faith come from? Isn't it a gift from the Sovereign God? She then, is ELECT!

don't fudge it! she could NOT be "elect" as the Old Testament clearly says ONLY the Jewish Nation were! What about the 1000's from Nineveh?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

You sadly forget that the OT saints (elect), are all of whom you mention above.

Specifically, Rahab had faith (Heb 11:31). Where does faith come from? Isn't it a gift from the Sovereign God? She then, is ELECT!

I'll go one better. How about the Gentiles, who are defenitely NOT Jews, and yet MILLIONS have been, and are being, and will be saved! They are not part of God's original "elect", which is very clearly, ONLY the Jewish nation!

 

[Mr. Davis]

I'll go one better. How about the Gentiles, who are defenitely NOT Jews, and yet MILLIONS have been, and are being, and will be saved! They are not part of God's original "elect", which is very clearly, ONLY the Jewish nation!

What a terrible memory! ALL of God's elect, jew and gentile, are part of God's Vine! (Rom 11) !!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

What a terrible memory! ALL of God's elect, jew and gentile, are part of God's Vine! (Rom 11) !!

you fail to conprehend the fact, that God's ORININAL "elect" were NOT the "Gentiles", that is why it says, "to the Jew first...2"!!!

"He came to His own", (John 1:12) JEWS!

 

[Katarina Von Bora]

So how can a Calvinist like Washer say the sinners prayer sends people to hell when he holds to determinism much like yourself

I don't think you understand predestination and foreknowledge.