Featured Can We Talk?

That must mean I'm safe!

 

Unfortunately, there tends to be so much divisiveness on this issue rather than good debate - and sometimes (usually) just agreeing to disagree. The makes me appreciate even more Dr. Michael Horton (of Westminster Seminary) and Dr. Roger Olson (of Truett Seminary) who wrote For Calvinism and Against Calvinism, respectively and actually wrote the foreword in each other's book.

I haven't listened to all of this, but their discussion can be found at www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D2SWKbZSIU.

 

Although not addressed to me, let's review the following:

The premise of Total Spiritual inability due to the Fall, has no support from this passage. It says those perishing have been blinded, so the Fall did not blind them. Now Jesus does address that some people have been blinded, the first soil of Matthew 13, but in no way does this apply to everyone from conception.

If everyone was blind, how did Paul commend himself to "everyone's conscience." (2 Cor. 4:2)

And again the gospel is veiled in the first soil, but not in the other three of Matthew 13:1-23.

Lastly, "those who are perishing" is claimed to refer to every unsaved person, certainly a possible meaning. But a less expansive interpretation would refer to those who have been blinded, the first soil. The opportunity to understand the gospel has been lost, and therefore they are perishing.

Now we could plow through all the verses asserted to support total spiritual inability, one after another, but without a response to the arguments offered, no real progress would occur.

 

I told you what I believe, Limited Spiritual Ability, and explained how I understand several verses that support my view. If you want to discuss the doctrine, have at it.

 

I would but we would get nowhere lol I've studied both views and I think Calvinists are very CLOSED to the truth but not close enough.
To me in comes down to one thing and one thing only. If you believe that God's foreknowledge equals to his predestination or foreordination, then you must remain a Calvinist.
I have read books on God's foreknowledge and I have studied the subject at the best of my ability and I believe that the Calvinist has this subject wrong and if the view on God's Foreknowledge is wrong then the rest falls apart.

 

Yea, what are you talking about

 

It appears we will not engage in a discussion through no fault of my own.

Goodbye Sir, sadly..

 

I think Calvinists (those that believe in the validity of the TULIP doctrines) are FAR from the truth, since I believe four of the five doctrines are bogus. Since both Arminians and Calvinists agree that God did not predestine our each and every sin, they simply disagree on how God avoided being the author of sin. Calvinists say the reason is a mystery, and Arminians say knowing what will happen exhaustively in the future does not predestine that future, but the reason for this is a mystery. Both views, therefore require cognitive dissonance. OTOH, Hypercalvinists believe God is the author of sin.

 

Except that paul stated to us, by the Holy Spirit, that the unsaved/natural sinner has no spiritual abilities!

 

Yes, we can agree to disagree in love towards each other, and the basic issues to me to be answered by both sides would be How much did the fall affect us, and what about full free will?

 

Which out of the TULIP do you believe in? You mentioned 4 are bogus.

 

I'm saying that if God's Foreknowledge=Predestination then the Calvinist is right. But if the Calvinist is wrong in their view in God's Foreknowledge then they will be wrong in how they view Predestination.

 

lol sorry. I have issues articulating my words. What I'm saying is that if God's Foreknowledge=Predestination then the Calvinist is right. But if the Calvinist is wrong in their view of God's Foreknowledge then they will be wrong in how they view Predestination.

 

Do you know who is written into the Lambs book of life? Or is your arguement against Gods having sovereignty over his creation. If so, yes you aren’t going to like that Election is entirely of Gods choosing ie some are born to be preeminent and some are born to be obscure.

Note that the Jews of the day ... even today love that teaching

 

Listen to this short video by William Lane Craig on God's Foreknowledge.

 

He holds with Molinism and Middle Knowledge, neither concept in the Bible!