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Can We Talk?

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Felipe Rios

Member
Earth Wind and Fire said:
Do you know who is written into the Lambs book of life? Or is your arguement against Gods having sovereignty over his creation. If so, yes you aren’t going to like that Election is entirely of Gods choosing ie some are born to be preeminent and some are born to be obscure.

Note that the Jews of the day ... even today love that teaching
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Listen to this short video by William Lane Craig on God's Foreknowledge.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Earth Wind and Fire said:
Do you know who is written into the Lambs book of life? Or is your arguement against Gods having sovereignty over his creation. If so, yes you aren’t going to like that Election is entirely of Gods choosing ie some are born to be preeminent and some are born to be obscure.

Note that the Jews of the day ... even today love that teaching
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He seems to be trying to hold to human free will as a contributing factor
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Felipe Rios said:
LOL I understand your reaction.
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I doubt you do. If God looks to the future and sees that a person will believe and elects that one unto salvation on the basis of what he saw in the future, God is not Omniscient. He learned something (that the person would believe). Prior to that He would not have known something and thus would not have been Omniscient. If He has not always been Omniscient He is not God.
 
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Felipe Rios

Member
TCassidy said:
I doubt you do. If God looks to the future and sees that a person will believe and elects that one unto salvation on the basis of what he saw in the future, God is not Omniscient. He learned something (that the person would believe). Prior to that He would not have known something and thus would not have been Omniscient. If He has not always been Omniscient He is not God.
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I don't believe God HAS TO look into the future. He simply knows. I also don't believe God HAS TO predestine in order for him to know. He simply knows. That's the mystery! Middle Knowledge or Molinism is simply a way to EXPLAIN God's Foreknowledge.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
TCassidy said:
I doubt you do. If God looks to the future and sees that a person will believe and elects that one unto salvation on the basis of what he saw in the future, God is not Omniscient. He learned something (that the person would believe). Prior to that He would not have known something and thus would not have been Omniscient. If He has not always been Omniscient He is not God.
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Sounds like Open theism 101
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Felipe Rios said:
I don't believe God HAS TO look into the future. He simply knows. I also don't believe God HAS TO predestine in order for him to know. He simply knows. That's the mystery! Middle Knowledge or Molinism is simply a way to EXPLAIN God's Foreknowledge.
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What is the basis of His foreknowledge though? Due to Him determined history, or merely observing it as it unfolds?
 
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Felipe Rios

Member
Yeshua1 said:
God has chosen to be part of His creation, so chose to limit Himself to knowing future events in same way Humans do, aware of it when it happens.
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I certainly do not believe God limits himself. I now remember what Open Theism is and I DO NOT believe in that. Watch the videos I sent. I believe in Molinism which is nothing close to Open Theism.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Felipe Rios said:
I certainly do not believe God limits himself. I now remember what Open Theism is and I DO NOT believe in that. Watch the videos I sent. I believe in Molinism which is nothing close to Open Theism.
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It is not really biblical based though, much more into philosophy!
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Felipe Rios said:
Middle Knowledge or Molinism is simply a way to EXPLAIN God's Foreknowledge.
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Poppycock. Not only is middle knowledge unnecessary to an all-knowing, all-decreeing God, but the Molinists’ conception of free will makes it impossible for God to exercise providential control over his creation, thus denying His Omnipotence. Why? Because men and women would be free to resist His decree.

Also, given the Molinist view of freedom, it is impossible for God to bring about the conversion of any person by the exercise of His efficacious grace, for in the view of the Molinists it is always possible for an individual to resist God’s efficacious grace.

As I said, rank heresy.
 
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