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Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Dec 2, 2017.

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  1. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    Listen to this short video by William Lane Craig on God's Foreknowledge.
     
    #81 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    He seems to be trying to hold to human free will as a contributing factor
     
    #82 Yeshua1, Dec 6, 2017
  3. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    There are two parts to it
     
    #83 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Rank heresy!
     
    #84 TCassidy, Dec 6, 2017
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  5. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    I would disagree :Biggrin
     
    #85 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
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  6. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    LOL I understand your reaction.
     
    #86 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
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  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    you are indeed free to be wrong
     
    #87 Yeshua1, Dec 6, 2017
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you hold to Open theism then?
     
    #88 Yeshua1, Dec 6, 2017
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  9. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I doubt you do. If God looks to the future and sees that a person will believe and elects that one unto salvation on the basis of what he saw in the future, God is not Omniscient. He learned something (that the person would believe). Prior to that He would not have known something and thus would not have been Omniscient. If He has not always been Omniscient He is not God.
     
    #89 TCassidy, Dec 6, 2017
  10. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    I don't believe God HAS TO look into the future. He simply knows. I also don't believe God HAS TO predestine in order for him to know. He simply knows. That's the mystery! Middle Knowledge or Molinism is simply a way to EXPLAIN God's Foreknowledge.
     
    #90 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
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  11. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    Remind me of what that means again.
     
    #91 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like Open theism 101
     
    #92 Yeshua1, Dec 6, 2017
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  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What is the basis of His foreknowledge though? Due to Him determined history, or merely observing it as it unfolds?
     
    #93 Yeshua1, Dec 6, 2017
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God has chosen to be part of His creation, so chose to limit Himself to knowing future events in same way Humans do, aware of it when it happens.
     
    #94 Yeshua1, Dec 6, 2017
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Let Tom C or The Squire handle him.....they are trained for this....I don't have the patience nor the desire for a deep discussion on this topic. Not trying to blow him off but not there in the right mindset right now.
     
    #95 Earth Wind and Fire, Dec 6, 2017
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  16. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    I certainly do not believe God limits himself. I now remember what Open Theism is and I DO NOT believe in that. Watch the videos I sent. I believe in Molinism which is nothing close to Open Theism.
     
    #96 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It is not really biblical based though, much more into philosophy!
     
    #97 Yeshua1, Dec 6, 2017
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Poppycock. Not only is middle knowledge unnecessary to an all-knowing, all-decreeing God, but the Molinists’ conception of free will makes it impossible for God to exercise providential control over his creation, thus denying His Omnipotence. Why? Because men and women would be free to resist His decree.

    Also, given the Molinist view of freedom, it is impossible for God to bring about the conversion of any person by the exercise of His efficacious grace, for in the view of the Molinists it is always possible for an individual to resist God’s efficacious grace.

    As I said, rank heresy.
     
    #98 TCassidy, Dec 6, 2017
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  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I believe once a person is saved, they are saved forever, OSAS. This does not exactly match the "P' but is very close.
     
    #99 Van, Dec 6, 2017
  20. Felipe Rios

    Felipe Rios Member

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    I believe in the T and P and partially the I. I guess I'm a 2.5 Calvinist lol
     
    #100 Felipe Rios, Dec 6, 2017
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