". . .you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

[thatbrian]

"but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

My Arminian brothers have a problem when it comes to who takes credit for the salvation of their souls, and the point at which they have an issue is at the point of faith.

When looking at two people who have heard the gospel, one saved and one not, the Arminian gives himself credit for why he is counted among the children of God. He reasons that he chose God while his neighbor didn't. There was something in him that his neighbor was lacking. He responded while his neighbor didn't, so he naturally assumes that he was either smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful. . .

What he fails to see is that the reason he hears and responds while his neighbor does not is that he is one of God's chosen. He is among the fold of Christ. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:27) His sheep follow Him because there are His. They are already His! They belong to Him!. The reason that the Arminian's neighbor does not follow Christ is that his neighbor is not His. "but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

According to Jesus, His sheep follow Him because they were His sheep to begin with.

May we all give glory to God for both His grace and the faith which receives it.

 

[MB]

"but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

You believe the lies of the Great men of your faith because you refuse to consider what the rest of the Bible says.

My Arminian brothers have a problem when it comes to who takes credit for the salvation of their souls, and the point at which they have an issue is at the point of faith.

This is really quite funny. There is very little difference between Arminians and Calvinist.Of which I am not one of either. Calvinist in there ignorance aren't able to lable what I believe because I simply do not follow after other men. I follow Christ and the Word of God is my doctrinal belief.

When looking at two people who have heard the gospel, one saved and one not, the Arminian gives himself credit for why he is counted among the children of God. He reasons that he chose God while his neighbor didn't. There was something in him that his neighbor was lacking. He responded while his neighbor didn't, so he naturally assumes that he was either smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful. . .

You really should stick to what you know Your whole statement is a made up.

"

What he fails to see is that the reason he hears and responds while his neighbor does not is that he is one of God's chosen. He is among the fold of Christ. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:27) His sheep follow Him because there are His. They are already His! They belong to Him!. The reason that the Arminian's neighbor does not follow Christ is that his neighbor is not His. "but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

Actually I heard the Gospel because I can hear. You hear men of your faith who have perverted the gospel. The reason someone hears and doesn't respond is because they were not convinced.
With out submission and faith in Christ you cannot be saved.

"

According to Jesus, His sheep follow Him because they were His sheep to begin with.

This would mean they would have to have been saved from the begining. All men have sinned and come short of the glory of God

"
May we all give glory to God for both His grace and the faith which receives it.

I've never heard of a faith that receives.
MB

 

[InTheLight]

Fixed your post so it reflects back on you. How do you like it?

My Calvinist brothers have a problem when it comes to who takes credit for the salvation of their souls, and the point at which they have an issue is at the point of faith.

When looking at two people who have heard the gospel, one saved and one not, the Calvinist gives himself credit for why he is counted among the children of God. He reasons that God chose him while his neighbor didn't get chosen. There was something in him that his neighbor was lacking. He got chosen while his neighbor didn't, so he naturally assumes that he was either smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful. . .

 

[TCassidy]

He reasons that God chose him while his neighbor didn't get chosen.

So, you are criticizing God's election?

There was something in him that his neighbor was lacking.

Just exactly the opposite of what Unconditional election means. We believe we meet NO criteria in order to be chosen.

He got chosen while his neighbor didn't, so he naturally assumes that he was either smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful.

Again you demonstrate you have no knowledge of Unconditional election. The whole point of Unconditional election is that we are NOT "smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful" than anyone else.

And here we see it in black and white. A complete failure to understand election, and a ridiculous and massively ignorant mischaracterization of what Unconditional election actually is.

Proof positive that (as you are neither Calvinist nor Arminian, neither Monergist nor Synergist, just fill in the blank with whatever you want to be called ___________) don't understand even the very basics of TULI(E)P.

 

[MB]

So, you are criticizing God's election?

Which election do you mean? The one where God chose His people the Jews or the imaginary one where Calvinist are chosen because they were born saved from before the foundation of the world.

Just exactly the opposite of what Unconditional election means. We believe we meet NO criteria in order to be chosen.

Then all men must be elect. There is a reason for everything under the sun. Did a controlling God slip up when He chose you for no reason?

Again you demonstrate you have no knowledge of Unconditional election. The whole point of Unconditional election is that we are NOT "smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful" than anyone else.

Where in scripture is the unconditional election of the Gentiles?

.
And here we see it in black and white. A complete failure to understand election, and a ridiculous and massively ignorant mischaracterization of what Unconditional election actually is.

How can one understand what is described in God's holy Word? Don't you ever check your spelling?

Proof positive that (as you are neither Calvinist nor Arminian, neither Monergist nor Synergist, just fill in the blank with whatever you want to be called ___________) don't understand even the very basics of TULI(E)P.

I myself am a believer in Jesus Christ and His Word alone is my doctrine. I follow Christ not men like Calvinist...

MB

 

[InTheLight]

So, you are criticizing God's election?

Just exactly the opposite of what Unconditional election means. We believe we meet NO criteria in order to be chosen.

Again you demonstrate you have no knowledge of Unconditional election. The whole point of Unconditional election is that we are NOT "smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful" than anyone else.

And here we see it in black and white. A complete failure to understand election, and a ridiculous and massively ignorant mischaracterization of what Unconditional election actually is.

Proof positive that (as you are neither Calvinist nor Arminian, neither Monergist nor Synergist, just fill in the blank with whatever you want to be called ___________) don't understand even the very basics of TULI(E)P.

So you don't like someone mischaracterizing your beliefs. The point of my post. Glad you got it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL

 

[TCassidy]

the imaginary one where Calvinist are chosen because they were born saved from before the foundation of the world.

The fact that you have to start your response with a lie just proves my point.

Did a controlling God slip up when He chose you for no reason?

He chose me according to the good pleasure of His will.

Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph_1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Where in scripture is the unconditional election of the Gentiles?

Mat_24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat_24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Mar_13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
Mar_13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Luk_18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
Rom_8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Col_3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
1Ti_5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
2Ti_2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Tit_1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1Pe_2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
2Jn_1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
2Jn_1:13 The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

How can one understand what is described in God's holy Word?

God has gifted us with His inspired word, and with the indwelling Holy Spirit to guild us into all truth.

Joh_16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Don't you ever check your spelling?

My spelling is fine. Your's, on the other hand, is terrible. Not to mention your capitalization.

I follow Christ not men like Calvinist...

Are you insinuating that I don't follow Christ?

And don't you ever check your spelling? Did you mean "Calvinists?"

 

[TCassidy]

So you don't like someone mischaracterizing your beliefs.

Except you are the only one doing it.

 

[TCassidy]

Please learn to properly format your posts. It is very simple.

 

[TCassidy]

I figure you're the one who lies to your self because, Calvinism cannot be shown from scripture.

("Yourself" is one word. It is hard to take you seriously when you spell like a backward 2nd grader.)

Total Depravity
Romans 8:7-8 | For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 3:10-11 | …as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.

Unconditional Election
John 6:44 | No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Romans 8:29 | For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Ephesians 1:4 | even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

Limited Atonement
Matthew 7:13 | Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Matthew 26:28 | for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:48 | And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Irresistible Grace
John 6:37 | All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Romans 8:30 | And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Perseverance of the Saints
John 10:28 | I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 5:24 | Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

This phrase cannot be proven with scripture alone.

Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph_1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

 

[MB]

The fact that you have to start your response with a lie just proves my point.

If I lied as you claim then prove your case. Show us with scripture where Gentiles are elected?
MB

 

[Yeshua1]

"but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

My Arminian brothers have a problem when it comes to who takes credit for the salvation of their souls, and the point at which they have an issue is at the point of faith.

When looking at two people who have heard the gospel, one saved and one not, the Arminian gives himself credit for why he is counted among the children of God. He reasons that he chose God while his neighbor didn't. There was something in him that his neighbor was lacking. He responded while his neighbor didn't, so he naturally assumes that he was either smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful. . .

What he fails to see is that the reason he hears and responds while his neighbor does not is that he is one of God's chosen. He is among the fold of Christ. "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." (John 10:27) His sheep follow Him because there are His. They are already His! They belong to Him!. The reason that the Arminian's neighbor does not follow Christ is that his neighbor is not His. "but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep." (John 10:26)

According to Jesus, His sheep follow Him because they were His sheep to begin with.

May we all give glory to God for both His grace and the faith which receives it.

The Gospel of John is just as much Calvinistic as Romans is, as both show to us that salvation is of the Lord from start to finish!

 

[Yeshua1]

If I lied as you claim then prove your case. Show us with scripture where Gentiles are elected?
MB

Maybe when Jesus said that we were of another flock, and would be now under Jesus in one fold!

 

[TCassidy]

If I lied as you claim then prove your case. Show us with scripture where Gentiles are elected?
MB

That's not what you lied about. In post #5 you said "Calvinist are chosen because they were born saved from before the foundation of the world." Nonsense. We are not "born saved." I was saved in time, in fact, as an adult when I was 27 years old. And you know that! Shame on you for being so dishonest.

And I already posted the verses that prove Gentiles are elected.

 

[MB]

("Yourself" is one word. It is hard to take you seriously when you spell like an backward 2nd grader.)

Total Depravity
Romans 8:7-8 | For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 3:10-11 | …as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God.

Unconditional Election
John 6:44 | No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Romans 8:29 | For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Ephesians 1:4 | even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

Limited Atonement
Matthew 7:13 | Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.

Matthew 26:28 | for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:48 | And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Irresistible Grace
John 6:37 | All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Romans 8:30 | And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Perseverance of the Saints
John 10:28 | I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 5:24 | Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Eph_1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph_1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Not one, of these scriptures when read in context describes Calvinism. Not one, describes the so called doctrines of Grace in context. Your Calvinism cannot be explained by scripture in context alone

Anyone can make it seem that the Bible says what ever they want it to. One verse at a time.
MB

 

[MB]

That's not what you lied about. In post #5 you said "Calvinist are chosen because they were born saved from before the foundation of the world." Nonsense. We are not "born saved." I was saved in time, in fact, as an adult when I was 27 years old. And you know that! Shame on you for being so dishonest.

And I already posted the verses that prove Gentiles are elected.

Were you saved before or after you believed?. I've never read your testimony so for you to accuse me of lying and being dishonest is dishonesty it self.
Not one verse proves Gentiles are elected you lied on this point. The elect are Jews not Gentiles. Not one verse ever says Any Gentile is elect..
You claim scriptures that do not proof text your claims.
MB

 

[TCassidy]

I've never read your testimony so for you to accuse me of lying and being dishonest is dishonesty it self.

You said, "Calvinist are chosen because they were born saved from before the foundation of the world." Don't try to wiggle your way around it. You said it. It is a lie.

Not one verse proves Gentiles are elected you lied on this point.

The churches in question were, for the most part, Gentile churches. Do you think God lies about electing the gentile church members?

 

[MB]

You said, "Calvinist are chosen because they were born saved from before the foundation of the world." Don't try to wiggle your way around it. You said it. It is a lie.

Wiggle! People who accuse are usually guilty of what they accuse others of.
If men are chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world then yes they are saying they were saved before the foundation.

The churches in question were, for the most part, Gentile churches. Do you think God lies about electing the gentile church members?

Paul was known to preach in synagogues. Other than this he preached in Jail and in a theater in Athens.
Chruches are the people not the buildings. This is yet another thing you have falsely claimed proves what you believe. Yet it is assumed and not written in scripture. Just in your doctrine, it is assumed there fore it is not genuine.
MB

 

[TCassidy]

If men are chosen in Him from before the foundation of the world then yes they are saying they were saved before the foundation.

So now you are saying Ephesians 1:4 is saying that all believers were saved before the foundation? Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Paul was known to preach in synagogues

Yes, we all know that. But the churches were Gentile.

Other than this he preached in Jail and in a theater in Athens.

Yes, we all know that. But the churches were Gentile.

Chruches are the people not the buildings.

Yes, we all know that. And it is "churches" not "Chruches." Don't you ever spell check your posts?

This is yet another thing you have falsely claimed proves what you believe.

So now you are saying that claiming Ephesians 1:4 is true is false? What other bible verses do you think are a lie?

Yet it is assumed and not written in scripture.

So now you are saying all these verses are a lie?


Acts 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

1 Timothy 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

2 Timothy 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Just in your doctrine, it is assumed there fore it is not genuine.

"Therefore" is one word. Don't you ever spell check your posts? How do you expect to be taken seriously when you can't even spell "therefore" correctly?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Fixed your post so it reflects back on you. How do you like it?

My Calvinist brothers have a problem when it comes to who takes credit for the salvation of their souls, and the point at which they have an issue is at the point of faith.

When looking at two people who have heard the gospel, one saved and one not, the Calvinist gives himself credit for why he is counted among the children of God. He reasons that God chose him while his neighbor didn't get chosen. There was something in him that his neighbor was lacking. He got chosen while his neighbor didn't, so he naturally assumes that he was either smarter, more humble, more receptive, more grateful. . .

Wrong, he has no earthly understanding why he is chosen ... only that he has been. And he is he really grateful(if he knows what’s good for him).