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Featured Christ died for the dead in hell?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Duzt, Dec 14, 2017.

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  1. Duzt

    Duzt New Member

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    I encountered this fellow claiming that Jesus died for the sins of the elect, (which I refuted with Jn 3:16) and now wants to question the scope of His atonement with a question:

    "So, if you agree that Jesus died for everybody's sins, you have to agree that He also died for the sins of the souls in Hell, right?"

    I disagree because according to Mt 22:32, Jesus is the God of the living, and not of the dead.

    Any thoughts also you would like to emphasize, brethren?
     
    #1 Duzt, Dec 14, 2017
  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Jesus died for all, but atoned only for elect believers.
     
    #2 TCassidy, Dec 14, 2017
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    "Duzt,


    [I encountered this fellow claiming that Jesus died for the sins of the elect, ]

    He was correct....how else would you believe they are saved?

    [(which I refuted with Jn 3:16)]
    Maybe in your mind, but Jn3 does not refute truth, but adds to it.

    [ and now wants to question the scope of His atonement with a question:]
    That is okay...
    ["So, if you agree that Jesus died for everybody's sins, you have to agree that He also died for the sins of the souls in Hell, right?"]
    Good question...looks as if you cannot answer it...
    [I disagree because according to Mt 22:32, Jesus is the God of the living, and not of the dead.]
    This does not answer the question at all...in fact it is you avoiding the real question and misunderstanding the verse.
    [Any thoughts also you would like to emphasize, brethren?]


    Yes...try and answer his question again...
     
    #3 Iconoclast, Dec 14, 2017
  4. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    If Jesus died for the sins of every person in the world, then there would be no Hell in the first place.

    Christ's atoning work was for His elect.
     
    #4 thatbrian, Dec 15, 2017
  5. Duzt

    Duzt New Member

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    It seems we can conclude then that Christ died for the sins of the world, and yet only the elect (who believes in Him) will be saved.

    But still the question stands... If Christ died for everybody, does it also mean that He died for those who are now being punished in Hell for their sins and denying Christ?
     
    #5 Duzt, Dec 15, 2017
  6. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Christ died for the sins of the world, not in the sense of every single person who ever lived, but in the sense of Jew and Gentile, Pharisee and publican, rich and poor, everyone who believes in Him (John 3:16 ;)).
    Exactly. :) But He didn't do that. He laid down His life for the sheep (John 10:11).
     
    #6 Martin Marprelate, Dec 15, 2017
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  7. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    God so loved "the world", the Bible says. God loved every single person who ever lived or ever will live. But after one dies, his "day of grace" is over. The rich man in Hell is one example.

    The Bible says that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. That means He satisfied God's requirement to atone for every sin that has ever been committed by every sinner. It goes by the same principle as outlined in Deuteronomy 30:19

    Deuteronomy 30:19 says "choose life".. Choose Jesus as Wonderful, Counselor and Prince of Peace now, or reject Him and experience Him as terrible, Mighty God later.

    For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
     
    #7 SheepWhisperer, Dec 15, 2017
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  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Bingo, we have a winner here
     
    #8 Yeshua1, Dec 15, 2017
  9. saved and sure

    saved and sure Member
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    What scripture or scriptures support your statement?
     
    #9 saved and sure, Dec 15, 2017
  10. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    All of them. :)
     
    #10 TCassidy, Dec 15, 2017
  11. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    "God so loved the world" is not the same thing as, "God loved every single person who ever lived or ever will live."

    Are you a Universalist?
     
    #11 thatbrian, Dec 16, 2017
  12. SheepWhisperer

    SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    No. Many will go to Hell because they chose to reject Jesus. Correct me if I' wrong but, ''universalists'' believe God just saves everyone.
     
    #12 SheepWhisperer, Dec 16, 2017
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    God's atoning work is for the elect. We become elect when we believe. John 1:12
     
    #13 Revmitchell, Dec 16, 2017
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  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    That is not what it means, and that is not what it says. It says He is the propitiation (satisfaction) for the sins of the whole world (sufficient for all) but He does not atone for any sins except those who believe.

    To suggest a person whose sins have been atonement for still goes to hell makes the cross to be of none effect.

    How in the world does a person who has no sin (all atoned - paid for) end up in hell? What nonsense!
     
    #14 TCassidy, Dec 16, 2017
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I have a lot more respect for that position than for SheepWhisperer's nonsense.

    The only difference I would have with you would be that I believe we are elect (chosen) in Him before the foundation of the world. (Eph. 1:4.)
     
    #15 TCassidy, Dec 16, 2017
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God has a special love towards those of us that He is in a Covenant relationship now with!
     
    #16 Yeshua1, Dec 16, 2017
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    We were. Before the foundation of the world God decided that those who believe will be elect. John 1:12
     
    #17 Revmitchell, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2017
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  18. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We were. Before the foundation of the world God decided that those who believe will be elect. John 1:12[/QUOTE]
    Those who believe were his elect chosen by Him.
     
    #18 Yeshua1, Dec 16, 2017
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Those who believe were his elect chosen by Him.[/QUOTE]

    It does not say that.
     
    #19 Revmitchell, Dec 16, 2017
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  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    It does not say that.[/QUOTE]
    Regeneration then faith
     
    #20 Yeshua1, Dec 16, 2017
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