OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test

Until you read the text ...

17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive (GENTILE) were grafted in among them (JEWS) and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they (JEWS) were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches (Jews), He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree (i.e. - a believing gentile), and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

"every branch IN ME"

John 15
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. 3...6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


Christ is not in the business of taking all the lost and casting them away - rather He draws them to Himself for salvation.

The ones being cut off and cast away are the one's "IN ME" that do not bear fruit.

 

funny..

You are right that the term "saved" has to do with THIS life - being born again, a new creation, forgiven of sin... Spirit filled etc.

That person can lose salvation as Matthew 18 and Ezek 18 and Romans 11 and Hebrews 6 point out.

 

Until you read Matthew 18 - full forgiveness... then it is revoked.

1. Is it your claim that the lost have full forgiveness... have experienced full forgiveness of all sins to such a degree that they are called to truly forgive others JUST AS they themselves have already experienced full forgiveness of sins??? And that then refusing to do so .. they experience "forgiveness revoked".

2. OR is it your claim that the saved - after being fully forgiven then judged and all forgiveness of sins revoked - go through the flames of hell - pay their own debt of sin .. then go to heaven???

Matt 18
32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”


If we are Christians then by definition we listen to the teaching of Christ.

 

Which brings them to salvation -- having experienced "full forgiveness of sins"

But then... "they live another day" - in that day Romans 2:4-16 applies
And in that day Matthew 18:32-35 applies
And in that day 1 Cor 9 applies

23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it.
24 Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. 25 Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, lest after I have preached (the gospel) to others, I myself should be a castaway.

26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

The "you" in the case of vs 22 and 24 is "the gentile believer"
The "these who are natural branches" of vs 24 is unbelieving Jews (not all Jews - for Paul himself is a believing Jew as are all the Apostles)

Rom 2
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive (GENTILE) were grafted in among them (JEWS) and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they (JEWS) were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches (Jews), He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree (i.e. - a believing gentile), and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Paul does NOT contrast believing Jews with believing Gentiles in Romans 11... but rather unbelieving Jews with believing gentiles.

And the "you" who stands only by your faith... is the believing gentile

That is the same "you who should fear"
but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches (Jews), He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

interesting point.

Those who claim they will be 'taking God's name in vain all the way to heaven" don't understand the Gospel.

The Bible says "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
The Bible says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
The Bible says "NOT everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter.. but he who DOES the will of the Father" Matthew 7
The Bible says "not the HEARERS of the LAW are just before God but the DOERS of the LAW will be justifIED" Rom 2:13
The Bible says "THIS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3
The Bible says "the one who SAYS he knows Christ but does not KEEP His Commandments is lying"
1 John 2 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Mark 7:6-13 "In vain do they worship Me" -- a sermon by Christ about those who come up with many jirations for rebellion against one of God's commandments.

 

To repeat.

1. God is in the business of evangelizing unbelievers. That is the whole point of the Gospel and Jewish saints are listed in Hebrews 11.
2. "you stand only by your faith" and "you must persevere in doing good -- or else" message of Romans 11 is not at all about "persevering as an unbeliever" -- it is spoken to a believer -- telling the believer they must persevere in their position or else be cut off as were jews who chose unbelief.

Your argument is "with the text"

It is Paul that identifies them this way

1. but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
2. God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

That is not the identification of an "unbeliever" -- this is incredibly obvious to all of us.

your question then is to Paul -- asking why he is warning the believer against turning to unbelief

21 for if God did not spare the natural branches (Jews), He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

"otherwise" is pointing to a different future - instead of a "continue in his kindness" future - the one who 'stands by faith" may in the future choose some other course and is being warned not to do that... warned to "persevere" as Paul also says in Romans 2.

Your question is to Paul.

you can not fail to "continue" to persevere in something you never had to start with -- your statement is expressed in the form of a self-contradiction so that it could never happen -- which is a good example of what we do NOT find Paul writing in Romans 11.

You knew that right?

By contrast these are examples of statements that are not self-conflicted

1. If you DO persevere as a lost person in your unbelief - you will still be lost.
2. If you do NOT persevere as one 'who stands by faith" and so in the future you choose not to "continue" in his kindness - you will be lost

OSAS does not survive the test of Romans 11 and this is obvious to unbiased objective Bible students.

"reworking" or "fixing" the text as with all the texts in my list - is what OSAS "needs" to do ... but in this case there is 'no fix' that makes sense so it is stuck ignoring almost every detail in the text in its efforts to "rewrite it" to fit.

What false doctrine in the dark ages could not "thrive" if such methods in wrenching the text were legit? We all know that 'nothing' would have been rejected in such a case.