The Problem of Evil.

No one is going to understand how your wife suffered or the struggles you have been through. But if we make that understanding a prerequisite to show love and compassion we have missed the mark. It takes wisdom to know when to say something more than "I am praying for you", but when the time is right we should not miss the opportunity to point them towards God. We do not need to be perfect. Love rules in these situations. Love is what should motivate us. The person who is suffering may not remember (fondly) pious platitudes, but they will remember acts of love and compassion.

 

First, where are these innocent people you speak of? I would like to meet one.

Second, Jesus was indeed innocent, and God was pleased for Him to suffer.

But it was the LORD's good plan to crush him and cause him grief. Yet when his life is made an offering for sin, he will have many descendants. He will enjoy a long life, and the LORD's good plan will prosper in his hands. (Isaiah 53:10)

 

This is Jesus' answer to the "problem of evil":

There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. And he answered them, Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
​

Your premise is that we all deserve a life free from pain, evil, and suffering, but Jesus flips that on its head.

Rather than apologize for God to "skeptics", read them Romans 1. Their time is short.

 

Tim Keller does a good job with the subject of the OP. For those who don't know of Him, Tim was (just retired) pastor of a very large PCA church in NYC.

 

For a more in-depth answer:

 

Evil and sin are permitted by God for His greater purpose to be fulfilled, and He determined that the Cross of Christ would be His "fix" to all of this!

 

Delightful to talk with you, Delizzle,

Here is my answer. I did not read any of the follow-on posts, I am simply addressing your opening post.

THE THEODICE PROBLEM

If the evil in the world is intended by God he is not good. If it violates his intentions he is not almighty. God can't be both almighty and good.

I think David Hume is credited with initially formulating this paradox. But in actuality, this formulation was created by a pagan in an effort to refute the false gods of paganism. Hume may be the first to plagiarize it and attempt to apply it to the God of the Bible.

I think theo (God) dice (justice) refers to a good and almighty God allowing pain, suffering and death to exist.

In discussing this issue we first must confront the concept of evil. I could define evil as things that goes against my interests, but that would be logically invalid for the problem as framed above. But defining evil as things that go against the interests of God would fit logically into the problem as framed; so for the purpose of this discussion, evil will be so defined.

So the pain, suffering and death in our world that is consistent with the interests of God are not evil, even though some may consider them evil. To debate this point is a red herring because only the accepted definition establishes the problem as stated.

Therefore, the actual evil in the world is the creation of other somewhat autonomous entities, such as fallen angels and fallen mankind. God is ultimately responsible because he created the capacity for evil; but because His actions are consistent with His purposes, they are not evil.

Now lets turn our attention to the concept of goodness. Something that meets a need is good, something that falls short or is unusable is not good. Goodness must be defined in relation to mankind, but the problem arises in that what might be good for me might not be good for you. The concept that God is good does not require that all the actions of God are good for all people. Also, something might be good for me in the long term, but I would not recognize the need being met in the short term. So the pain, suffering and death in the world that is consistent with God’s purpose might not be seen as good for me during my lifetime, but in fact might be good for me or others long term. Clearly, those harmed by God to further His purpose would have a difficult time recognizing the goodness of their sacrifice! And again, to question the existence of the afterlife is a red herring, because the theodice problem turns on the ultimate justice of God.

So now lets turn to the crux of the problem. Evil, contrary to the will of God exists, and our all-powerful God allows it to exist. Therefore it appears that either God is not good or not almighty. But wait, there is more.

The purpose of the creation of mankind is the glorify God. In order for some of mankind to glorify God, we must choose to love and obey, to turn and to trust our savior and lord, Jesus Christ. Why would we choose God, rather than self love, if there was no pain, suffering and death in this life, and no potential to attain justice and peace in the next? Just as the law is a tutor to lead us to knowledge of the wrongness of our choices, our harsh environment is a tutor to lead us to knowledge of the consequences of our wrong choices. When God told Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, he said the consequence would be death. So the creation of the capacity to love God, or other stuff fulfills the purpose of creation. And with this capacity to be an evil-doer, to love other stuff, comes a price. In order for our logically consistent and all-powerful God to create mankind with the capacity to choose to glorify God, He must allow us to make our choices and live with both the short term and long term consequences. The outcome of our choices is not always good, but without that reality, we would not exist at all.

Conclusion of the Matter: The Theodice problem is a non-problem, God is good but we are not, God is all-powerful but is staying His hand so that some may choose to glorify God.

 

Again - Personally I have no answer for the present evil. The answer in the word of God - the Book of Job.

People leave the church for a lot less.

HankD

 

We learn lessons from the existence of evil that can only be learned because it exists down here. This is the place, the only place besides hell, that the evil one is allowed to have any sway. Time and time again we can see that good will always triumph despite the best efforts of the evil one.

Yes, God allows it to happen and can end it in a minute, but He has His reasons for allowing it to continue. Like most things concerning the spiritual side of things, we mortals can only speculate as to what they really are.

 

the basic problem many have with Calvinism theology is that it takes away from us any hope of saving ourselves, any part in getting ourselves saved, as that is the work of God Himself!

In order to keep the myth of libertine free will alive, they will ascribe to God terms like "robot master/puppet master"

 

God told Adam that he would die when he ate the fruit. Every breath you take is a gift. God owes you and me nothing.

Yes, I can see how the natural mind would find fault with God. They do it all day long. The question is, will you join them? Just because your roommate is insane or distorts a theology which millions have held, what does that have to do with Calvin? I am a Calvinist and I worship and praise God, and often weep when I am reminded of His great love for sinners like me.

Lastly, you didn't interact with the words of Jesus in my last post. Would you care to?

 

The Problem of Evil

Actually it is not a problem.

HankD

 

OK - God has no problem(s), if evil is a problem it's ours not God's.

HankD

 

One of the "greatest" philosophical challenges ever presented to refute the existence of God is the P.O.E. Many theologians recognize this argument as a sort of test.

The Problem of Evil closely relates to the argument over the existence of God and it is commonly suggested that if there is a God then He is evil.

As a theologian I feel it is vitally important (absolutely necessary) to maintain ALL of God’s Holy attributes, His Nature as 100% True and this is a hill I would die on before conceding on even one point concerning this.

Determinists and Atheist rationalize very similar in regard to God having evil traits wherein the Soft Determinist simply resorts to saying things like, “it isn’t evil because God meant it for good” and/or agrees with Classical Theology that God foreknows all things therefore He must have determined all things including evil but He is not evil with little logical rhyme or reason to back his argument up and finally Hard Determinists commonly attribute evil to God without apology. The Atheist discounts the existence of a Good God and therefore uses the POE to support the argument about the non-existence of God entirely.

This is why the P.O.E. is, well, such a famous/infamous problem to the theologian, in that if one theorizes that God exists but is not Only Good then he/she has a serious problem in trying to separate good from evil, or IOWs separating God from the Devil! (The result of Theological Fatalism)