Sola Scriptura and OSAS...again

Bob, instead of addressing the same arguments again, lets focus on one verse that denies Moses and Elijah were glorified without controversy:


Acts 26:22-23
King James Version (KJV)

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.


Tell me why this does not mean Christ was the first One to rise from the dead, and why if Christ is the first (as we see in numerous statements in Scripture)...

...how say you that Moses and Elijah were before Christ in the resurrection from the dead?

And by what were they raised from the dead through?


God bless.

 

Again you completely ignore the point: Moses spoke of it as a future event, and that event was that Christ would be the first to rise from the dead.

C'mon Bob, address that point.


God bless.

 

What also doesn't change is that in the Old Testament, when the promise of the New Covenant is given, it is clear it is future event:


Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Hebrews 8:7-12
King James Version (KJV)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.


Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


The New Covenant, and its provision (and I emphasized remission of sins, as that is a primary theme in the context of 9-10, as already discussed) was not given in the Old Testament Eras, only the Promise.


Continued...

 

On the contrary, I am always clear that the Holy Ghost ministered in the lives of men, filling them with His Spirit that they might minister themselves, and I am always clear that men were saved from an eternal perspective by grace through faith. They were justified, but did not enter into the presence of God, but awaited Eternal Redemption through Christ in Sheol/Hades.

That is why the just and unjust are contrasted often, and we see that being made complete was accomplished by the Blood of Christ.

We even see the Church distinguished from Old Testament Saints here:


Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.


This is another false argument, and you know it Bob. Unless you are not reading the posts I have presented to you. More than enough Scripture for you to relinquish that desperate hold on doctrines that cannot be supported by Scripture.

Again, only Christ could make complete the believer, through His Offering of Himself, and He did so, that is, made the comer thereunto perfect (complete) in regards to remission of sins...

...forever.


Continued...

 

Just because Christ mentioned that men must be born again in John 3 doesn't mean men could.

He also told men to believe in Him...

...and they didn't.

So trying to impose Regeneration prior to when that was possible is like trying to say that there were men that believed in Christ as the Risen Savior prior to the Cross and Resurrection.

Christ denies this view:


Mark 16:9-14
King James Version (KJV)

9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept.

11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.

13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them.

14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

Because you reject Scripture's teaching that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was a Mystery, it is you, my friend, that actually creates another Gospel. You have yet to present what it is men were saved by in the Old Testament, but, because you say they were Eternally Redeemed (contrary to Scripture), glorified (contrary to Scripture), going to Heaven (contrary to Scripture),in relationship with God through the New Covenant (contrary to Scripture)...

...it is you that create the need for them to be saved by something other than the Sacrifice of Christ.

You might try to present the popular mythology of "salvation on credit," or that the Cross waqs saving men in advance of the event, but, that is not the case.

Again, Eternal Redemption was retroactive for the Old Testament Saints (those justified by God's grace through faith in the revealed will (revelation) they had available in their times) and retroactively redeemed the transgressions which were under the Law (Which was the Covenant in place when Christ died and established the New Covenant in fulfillment of His Promise in the Old Testament):


Hebrews 9:12-15
King James Version (KJV)

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


You simply cannot deny this, Bob. All you can do is to reiterate the same accusation of a two gospel theory, when in fact it is you doing that.


God bless.

 

You are saying those that hold to certain doctrines are heretics, so, when you identify them as holding to those doctrines you are saying they are heretics.

Same thing, Yeshua1.

Of course, but, that does not mean that everyone in those groups are in fact heretics. Don't you read my posts, Yeshua1? I have already told you that many are ignorant of what their groups teach, and it is not surprising that people in groups adopt the doctrines taught.

But they, like most people...can't really be said to have their own beliefs. They have simply adopted the beliefs of another. We do not have our own beliefs until we actually read Scripture for ourselves and learn what Scripture teaches. Many people say "I believe this or that," but the truth is, they are simply parroting what they were told they should believe.

Again, Bob ha mentioned none of that, and nothing that I remember as specific to Doctrinal Distinctives of SDA.

Now, do you have something to contribute to what is being discussed? Would love for you to join the conversation.


God bless.

 

Based on the number of people who died, from their perspective...it was not a "failure."


God bless.

 

The slam was because Nicodemus interjected a physical understanding to what Christ was saying, when He should have, even though he would have been expectant of a physical Kingdom (which was promised by God and will be fulfilled in its proper time and season (Acts 1:6-7)...

...should have immediately thought of Ezekiel 36...


Ezekiel 36:24-27
King James Version (KJV)

24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


...and Ezekiel 37...


Ezekiel 37
King James Version (KJV)


4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:


...both of which refer to the Lord regenerating, resurrecting, and placing His Spirit within men (see Acts 1:4-5).

Not something specific to the physical (a physical rebirth by re-entering the physical womb).

Again, Christ demanded men believe on Him and specifically in His Resurrection, and the simple fact is...no-one could at that time, and no-one did. The disciples did not abide in Christ, though they were "commanded" to. The reason is because Christ is looking towards that day when these things would be fulfilled and men could believe, be born again, and abide in Christ (though this is specific primarily to those of Israel in the first century, particularly the Disciples, who would choose between faith in Christ and faith in what Israel knew to be the God ordained religion through which they had relationship to God through.

That was a tough choice in the first century for numerous reasons.


God bless.