How are we made righteous?

Think that it refers to God circumcising our hearts, IE, regeneration unto salvation!

 

What and who are you accusing of "false theology is being spewed forth like from a fire hose."

Who on the BB are you labeling as being a heretic?

 

How?

When?

Was such available to all prior to the death of Christ?

From what Scripture do you determine that which you propose in the above statement?

 

Hold on, having some trouble with my hose...

It says that right here...


Romans 4
King James Version (KJV)

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?


The question centers on Abraham in his physical disposition, meaning, it regards to him in the temporal.

But Abraham is who is in view.


2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.


We don't see "...if Abraham's faith were justified by works..."

The conclusion to Paul's point is...


3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.


Abraham believed God, which was accomplished through faith, and it was accounted unto Abraham...righteousness.

Abraham was credited with righteousness.


4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Paul is not speaking of Abraham specifically here, Van, he is speaking generally. And you can't have faith apart from the one who has faith. I see your point, that those in view here have faith, and that is counted (considered) righteousness, but you can't have one without the other. Does "His faith is righteous but he is not" make sense?

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.


So we exclude Abraham from Paul's teaching? Not at all. It is the same subject throughout.


God bless.

 

So present your view and your Biblical support for it, be glad to look at it with you.

Our sin burden is not removed because we are circumcised spiritually, our sin burden is removed because Christ died for us.

I said...

That it is a figure of speech is fairly easy to understand, seeing we do not have any "spiritual cutting" going on." It is of the heart, and we have a new heart because we are now indwelt by God.

Never said it was, but in fact specifically said...

God bless.

 

So, having yet answered the questions in post #25, I will further ask, what Scripture you offer to support it is a "false theology to claim Christ's death was not needed to make sinners righteous" and can you give an example of any view supported by a member of the BB to such thinking?

 

Actually you have not, because there is no possible way to deny Abraham was righteous according to his works:


James 2:21-24
King James Version (KJV)

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Nor have you addressed the fact that I distinguished between the temporal imputation of righteousness and being declared righteous through the Shed Blood of Christ.

Nor have you in any way made a case for the notion that we "are not declared righteous."

I guess that is why you did not quote me. Hoping I wouldn't see your response?

Not at all, its just showing your notion to be unbiblical. Perhaps if you tried to respond to my posts you might understand what I actually said. Of course, you would then have to cede the point, and could not therefore continue to teach what you want to believe.

Why would I? I was dealing with your teaching...No verse or passage says Abraham was declared righteous, not one.

I have consistently distinguished between atonement in the Old Testament and The Atonement, in this thread as well as any thread I am in.

So quote me even intimating such, so the fact that you offer a false argument based on falsehood about what I have said can be seen.

I dare you, lol.

If you're going to respond to me, quote me so I get an alert. Its pretty apparent you don't want me to know you've said something, and why you wouldn't is pretty clear.


God bless.

 

I showed you the Scripture and YOU acknowledged it .

That you now attempt to dispute what you recently agreed, seems to be you using obfuscation without truth, and not me.

Can you show at what point I even alluded to such a statement?

What I ask, "...what Scripture you offer to support it is a "false theology to claim Christ's death was not needed to make sinners righteous" and can you give an example of any view supported by a member of the BB to such thinking?"

After asking, you avoid the question by attempting to assign some characteristic to me that is unfounded.

But, can you actually give and example of any view supported by a member of the BB to such thinking?

What "false theology (to) claim(s) Christ's death was not needed to make sinners righteous?

Unless you can state such a theology, and then show some member of the board as presenting that as a viable view, then it is a hollow claim at best.

 

Not made, declared!

 

We are still sinners with sin natures though, and any righteousness we now have is because God declared us to now be found in Jesus, and in His own righteousness!