I'm the last person I'm Baptist board that would make any such post as I don't believe Free Will exists.
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Limited Atonement: Let's set the record straight.
- Thread starter delizzle
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LOL, The irony of that post could probably give a philosopher a good laugh.
Listen again....you are ot getting what he is saying
It might because the idea or the concept of free will only exist in carnal philosophy and Hollywood movies and of course in faulty defective theology
And I am not going to respond to the "It's all God's fault" blasphemy.
So, again, is rejecting Christ a sin?
And would that rejection be a sin?
Really? So a choice is not a sin? Even a wrong choice?
It isn't? Why not. It is the rejection of all that God has revealed of Himself in Christ.
Oh good grief! Knock off the "its all God's fault" nonsense!
LOL! ROFLOL! That is the funniest thing I have ever read on the BB. And believe me, I have read so really funny things here!
Rejecting Christ is a Sin, But drinking water does not equate to rejecting Christ.
Its by his terms not yours. Even his betrayal came with a kiss.
John 14
15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
The love of God and neighbor intrinsically call for a mercy to rejectors, and those who oppose mercy to rejectors are merely GREATER REJECTORS.
The GOOD SAMARITAN is called the GOOD SAMARITAN because he is not the GOOD CHRISTIAN.
And that is the FIRST card Jesus plays as an example of AGAPE, a love of GOD and LOVE of NEIGHBOR,
He could have said well let me tell you about myself, But go figure Jesus is not megalomaniac.
You guys literally would have to preach a DAMNED SAMARITAN.
delizzle
Active Member
I don't think anyone here is making such a claim. At least I hope not. It's true that before God is loving and merciful, He is righteous, Holy, and Just.
I do not wish to get into a discussion on this comment lest I am hit again with Romans 9. However, the reality is that many of the atheists I have talked to left reformed churches for this very reason. The issue is not necessarily that God sends people to hell. It's the thought that God would send someone to hell without ever giving that person an opportunity to be saved. I actually hope Calvinism is true because I hate the thought of so many people being damned to hell because it was false.
delizzle
Active Member
I would also like to note the obvious "??" at the end of the post demonstrating that it was an obvious question, not a statement, assertion, or claim.
delizzle
Active Member
Correct me if I am wrong. But he appeared to say that we do have will. But it is a slave to sin. Is that what you mean by "free will doesn't exist"? That we do have a will, but it's not free. If that is the case, then I stand corrected. Meaning, "even for Calvinism your statement is false" is a false statement.
People leave churches because they hate the biblical God and His word.
Unsaved men cannot understand the truth....so they go where there is entertainment instead
Yes....exactly....scripture says we are self willed....we make choices....reformed persons speak of....free moral agency....choices we are fully responsible for....but bound by our nature.
In heaven we will not be free to sin.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Adam had Free will, Lucifer had free will, Gabriel has free will, we have free will ... we will have free will in heaven.
Calvinism's solution is "make 'em all robots"
God's solution is the Gospel over 6000 years of time creating "compelling evidence" for free will beings to make right choices.
Calvinism's solution is "make 'em all robots"
God's solution is the Gospel over 6000 years of time creating "compelling evidence" for free will beings to make right choices.
The bible makes it clear that our will is not free. It is in bondage to the law of sin and death. Just as the Christian's will is not free, it is bound to the law of New Life in Christ.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
His sovereign will is to have a free will universe.
Thus
"He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11
"O Jerusalem Jerusalem.. How I WANTED... but you would not" Matthew 23
"we BEG you on behalf of Christ - BE reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5
Your post in response to the texts I gave - - makes it "appear" that the language the text uses is "unaware" that the lost do not have free will and thus had no other choice.
"He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11
"O Jerusalem Jerusalem.. How I WANTED... but you would not" Matthew 23
"we BEG you on behalf of Christ - BE reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5
It makes it "appear" that you consider God not being fully informed in that point and thus His inspired Word is appealing to the "choice" of those who are lost and "BEGGING" them to make a better choice -- not knowing that Calvinism has the right solution for that problem
Your "a bound self will no matter how many times" ?? God begs them?? (or posts about God begging them are quoted) ??
Are you solving your problem or digging the hole deeper?
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Even the most devout Calvinist admits that the John 6 "drawing of God" enables all the "choice to accept the Gospel" that depravity disables. What they deny is the John 12:32 statement that all mankind are being drawn to God.
God enables the free will choice to accept the Gospel - supernaturally - and "Draws ALL mankind to Himself" enabling ALL to respond. So this is not about the lost person suddenly exercising free will and perfectly obeying the LAW of God without being born again or need of the Gospel. This is about the lost person "having the free will choice" to respond to the Holy Spirit and be born again.
I love it that we get asked to repeat the answer over and over again on the C-vs-A board.
delizzle
Active Member
Well, for their sake, I hope you are right.
delizzle
Active Member
delizzle
Active Member
Does that mean that Christians are incapable of choosing to sin? Or that Christians are incapable of rejecting Christ. Not trying to challenge you. Just need clarification.
delizzle
Active Member
Did I say "it's all God's fault"? Remember, an attack on your theology is not an attack on you or God.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
My "make 'em all robots" statement was in response to the statement "In heaven we will not be free to sin" -- no sin once we get to heaven because God does not allow them to choose sin.
So not a reference to the depravity state of the lost on this side of the 2nd coming.
If God were willing to simply mind-zap-everyone-to-not-sin then that solution should have been invoked the day before Lucifer made that historic bad choice.
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delizzle
Active Member
An atheist I spoke with made a statement that even if there was a 0.0000000000001% chance that we could choose to sin while in heaven, given an infinite amount of time, the chances of us actually sinning is 100%. Some would argue that we won't have free will in heaven. If no free will and nothing impure can be in the presence of God, what led Lucifer to sin? If we do have free will, what will keep us from sinning?
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