1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults" declares Adventist are not a Cult and destroys Hoekema's book

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Feb 17, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The floor is yours Bob. Teach us how John 9:41 relates to Isaiah 66, and why Isaiah 66 is speaking of Christians who eat pork are going to be damned to hell.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Hint the list I gave above --
    Includes not one Bible writer. Details matter and your post relies on the idea of ignoring "details" ... why keep doing that??

    Read 1 Corinthians 12, 1 Corinthians 14:1 or Numbers 12 lately???

    Why keep posting against the text of scripture??

    Making stuff up again?
    Creative writing again?

    Try this... "read" .. I did not even mention pork... I mentioned mice.

    I said this -- Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

    Look "again".
    read.

    It is you that posts "nonstop pork"


    Yes I am ... meditate on it for a while.
     
    #22 BobRyan, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I simply post those two texts... I read and accept them.

    And you??
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I merely quoted Isaiah 66 and John 9 saying that this had bad implications for people that eat mice... you jumped on that as if your hair was on fire. Try reading the text "instead" unless it is your argument that you can't read that part of the Bible because you think Ellen White wrote it.

    All your vitriol over the fact that "I notice" that Isaiah 66 talks about eating mice and I state that I notice it - in my post.

    How sad....

    How "instructive" for the unbiased readers
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I keep saying that " I BELIEVE" the Bible should be read - and believed and you keep saying "that makes my point!"

    So "odd" that you find a way to "spin" all of this into a much-imagined negative.

    On the contrary - we see two SDA members who do not mention pork at all on this thread (though you wish to "spin" it to "pork").

    And as you were told dozens of times before .. we see affirmation of John 9:41 and Isaiah 66 by these same members on other threads.. at the exact point that you wanted to declare that "reading the Bible" and "believinig it" would be a "bad thing" if it was not in harmony with your "preferences".

    Didn't we have enough of that sort of "teaching" in the dark ages Steaver?
    Wouldn't you like to join the side of ?sola scriptura testing" where the Bible is not at war with faith in Christ?
    These little bible-avoidance games you seem to enjoy are not helping you make a strong case for your preferences.

    We wait for you to at-some-point look at the actual text rather than simply complain that someone else has posted the Bible text or blaming the text on "Ellen White".

    I only mentioned mice... you are the one that is hair-on-fire over the pork topic.
     
    #25 BobRyan, Feb 20, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    What did I state that the Sda holds to that was not true though? You still hold to all that was mentioned, correct?
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Where does the scripture indicate to us that the offices of prophets/Apostles carried on after the Apostolic Age ended though?
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    IN 1 Cor 12 God tell us about those gifts - given to the church

    1 Corinthians 14 INSTRUCTS us to seek them... specifically one of them

    Reading the Bible AND accepting it -- is a big deal for some Christians -- such as Adventists.
    Imagining that "the day after a text was penned it was obsoleted by God" is not an actual Bible principle of study. It is "fluff".

    Those who "wish" to imagine such things bear the burden of "missing proof" for their wild conjecture.

    (And of course there is always Ephesians 4... :) )
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    You "imagined for us" that the doctrine on the judgment is "not true" -- I pointed you to just a few examples of texts that outright refute the speculation you offer.
     
  10. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Oh. Remind us what your pointing to mice eating was in response to?
     
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Hey found it.....

    Which you answered....

    So what connect are you making between pork eating and mice eating? Please explain.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Other people have their agendas - mine is to read scripture and believe it.

    I think you were on your favorite "every topic is a pork topic".

    I was on my favorite -- "read the Bible and believe it" topic where I say Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

    and then you declare that it is evil to read the Bible and accept what it says for some odd reason

    Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

    But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
    He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
    He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
    He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
    As they have chosen their own ways,
    And their soul delights in their abominations,
    4 So I will choose their punishments
    And will bring on them what they dread.
    Because I called, but no one answered;
    I spoke, but they did not listen.
    And they did evil in My sight
    And chose that in which I did not delight.”
    ...
    15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
    And His chariots like the whirlwind,

    To render His anger with fury,
    And His rebuke with flames of fire.
    16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
    And by His sword on all flesh
    ,
    And those slain by the Lord will be many.
    .
    17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
    Following one in the center,
    Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
    Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord


    John 9
    41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.

    =============================

    Then you went off on what appears to be "Ellen White wrote parts of the Bible how dare you quote those texts" kind of posts.

    For reasons that are innexplicable
     
    #32 BobRyan, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  13. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I found it Bob....

    steaver said:
    Does Jesus have a double standard? He holds pork eating as a damnable sin for a few (the ones you say have been given light) while letting the masses of His children eat all the pork they want and still be saved?


    You answered with...

    BobRyan said:
    Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?


    So what connection was you making between my pork eating question and your mice eating answer? Please explain.
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

    Isaiah 66
    But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
    He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
    He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
    He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
    As they have chosen their own ways,
    And their soul delights in their abominations,
    4 So I will choose their punishments
    And will bring on them what they dread.
    Because I called, but no one answered;
    I spoke, but they did not listen.
    And they did evil in My sight
    And chose that in which I did not delight.”
    ...
    15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
    And His chariots like the whirlwind,

    To render His anger with fury,
    And His rebuke with flames of fire.
    16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
    And by His sword on all flesh
    ,
    And those slain by the Lord will be many.
    .
    17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
    Following one in the center,
    Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
    Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord


    John 9
    41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.

    Nice find Steaver -- I think I have posted the link to it about a dozen times now. Still nice to have everyone on the same page... finally.

    This was my "actual" posted response.

    Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

    Isaiah 66
    But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
    He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
    He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
    He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
    As they have chosen their own ways,
    And their soul delights in their abominations,
    4 So I will choose their punishments
    And will bring on them what they dread.
    Because I called, but no one answered;
    I spoke, but they did not listen.
    And they did evil in My sight
    And chose that in which I did not delight.”
    ...
    15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
    And His chariots like the whirlwind,

    To render His anger with fury,
    And His rebuke with flames of fire.
    16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
    And by His sword on all flesh
    ,
    And those slain by the Lord will be many.
    .
    17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
    Following one in the center,
    Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
    Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord


    John 9
    41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.

    ================================

    Which of course you did include "except for all that Bible quoting, Bible details, Bible reading" I called for in my post... you know 'the usual'
     
    #34 BobRyan, Feb 21, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I find it hard to believe that on this "Walter Martin admits SDA denomination is not a cult" thread - the best you can find to oppose it is to show that you "must not quote" the Isaiah 66 statements about eating mice.!!

    That is truly "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader
     
  16. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The gift of prophesy was NOT the same thing as being a prophet/Apostle, for the gift of prophesy was a mix of error and God, but Prophets/Apostles always spoke the word of the Lord.
    EW has failed to demonstart that she saw the risen Jesus, was commissioned by Him as a prophetess, and she fails the test of having her doctrines agree with the scriptures!
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jesus staed to us that right NOW we have passed from eternal death unto life, so how can one lose eternal life?
     
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Yes, you already stressed that you did not address my pork eating question and that you addressed mice eating (right there in bold). You have been adamant about that. So go ahead now and address my question about pork eating, not mice eating.
     
  19. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Messages:
    10,443
    Likes Received:
    182
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    In fact your made it clear....

    So we need you to address my pork eating question.....
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    He keeps dodging the pork and Sabbath question!
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...