Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults" declares Adventist are not a Cult and destroys Hoekema's book

[steaver]

And as you were told dozens of times before .. we see affirmation of John 9:41 and Isaiah 66 by these same members on other threads.. at the exact point that you wanted to declare that "reading the Bible" and "believinig it" would be a "bad thing" if it was not in harmony with your "preferences".

The floor is yours Bob. Teach us how John 9:41 relates to Isaiah 66, and why Isaiah 66 is speaking of Christians who eat pork are going to be damned to hell.

 

[BobRyan]

steaver said: ↑
Once a person buys into another person outside of the bible being an Apostle or a Prophet, sola scriptura ceases as your final authority. There is absolutely ZERO chance you could ponder or reason with a sola scriptura argument.

Steaver you are extending your Bible-denying doctrine to brand new areas. You have now much-imagined for us that all the NT saints could not be "sola scriptura" Christians if they accepted Agabus, Anna in the temple, Philips 4 daughters and all those in the church of Corinth who claimed to have "a revelation" as prophets because they already had "scripture" -- what is mere in the false teaching you have written via creative writing - you make even the Apostles of the NT to be a cause for NT saints to deny "sola scirptura" testing since they themselves were prophets outside of what the NT saints had in their hands as "scripture".

How sad Steaver that your "spin game" is now getting you to utter teaching that condemns the NT saints -- just because 1 Cor 12 "existed" and just because the saints in 1 Corinth 14 "existed"!!

Come back to the Bible Steaver. come back to reason and to sound doctrine. I have not seen you go this far off the narrow path of pure doctrine in a long time.

Well Bob, we are far removed from what has been accepted and confirmed by Christians as to who's writings have been penned by the Holy Spirit Himself.

Hint the list I gave above --

if they accepted Agabus, Anna in the temple, Philips 4 daughters and all those in the church of Corinth who claimed to have "a revelation" as prophets because they already had "scripture"

Includes not one Bible writer. Details matter and your post relies on the idea of ignoring "details" ... why keep doing that??

And then we have latter day "Prophets and Apostles" come along some 1800 years afterwards and claim God has revealed to them

Read 1 Corinthians 12, 1 Corinthians 14:1 or Numbers 12 lately???

Why keep posting against the text of scripture??

telling us that God has allowed you to believe pork eating is ok ..

Making stuff up again?
Creative writing again?

Try this... "read" .. I did not even mention pork... I mentioned mice.

I said this -- Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

Look "again".
read.

It is you that posts "nonstop pork"

steaver said: ↑
Does Jesus have a double standard? He holds pork eating as a damnable sin

Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

“But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
As they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So I will choose their punishments
And will bring on them what they dread.
Because I called, but no one answered;
I spoke, but they did not listen.
And they did evil in My sight
And chose that in which I did not delight.”
...
15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
And His chariots like the whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the Lord will be many.
.
17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord

John 9
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
.

Isn't this ironic? Read what you wrote and meditate on it awhile......... Your telling me to come back to the bible?

Yes I am ... meditate on it for a while.

 

[BobRyan]

The floor is yours Bob. Teach us how John 9:41 relates to Isaiah 66, .

I simply post those two texts... I read and accept them.

And you??

 

[BobRyan]

I
Isn't this ironic? Read what you wrote and meditate on it awhile......... Your telling me to come back to the bible? When did you leave the bible Bob and place your future and faith in EGW?

I merely quoted Isaiah 66 and John 9 saying that this had bad implications for people that eat mice... you jumped on that as if your hair was on fire. Try reading the text "instead" unless it is your argument that you can't read that part of the Bible because you think Ellen White wrote it.

All your vitriol over the fact that "I notice" that Isaiah 66 talks about eating mice and I state that I notice it - in my post.

How sad....

How "instructive" for the unbiased readers

 

[BobRyan]

steaver said: ↑
What really matters is what do the members believe.

I keep saying that " I BELIEVE" the Bible should be read - and believed and you keep saying "that makes my point!"

So "odd" that you find a way to "spin" all of this into a much-imagined negative.

steaver said: ↑
We see here on this board two SDA members who believe eating pork...

On the contrary - we see two SDA members who do not mention pork at all on this thread (though you wish to "spin" it to "pork").

And as you were told dozens of times before .. we see affirmation of John 9:41 and Isaiah 66 by these same members on other threads.. at the exact point that you wanted to declare that "reading the Bible" and "believinig it" would be a "bad thing" if it was not in harmony with your "preferences".

Didn't we have enough of that sort of "teaching" in the dark ages Steaver?
Wouldn't you like to join the side of ?sola scriptura testing" where the Bible is not at war with faith in Christ?
These little bible-avoidance games you seem to enjoy are not helping you make a strong case for your preferences.

We wait for you to at-some-point look at the actual text rather than simply complain that someone else has posted the Bible text or blaming the text on "Ellen White".

The floor is yours Bob. Teach us how John 9:41 relates to Isaiah 66, and why Isaiah 66 is speaking of Christians who eat pork are going to be damned to hell.

I only mentioned mice... you are the one that is hair-on-fire over the pork topic.

 

[Yeshua1]

Pontifical ruling on your part?
creative writing?
wishful thinking?

In the mean time - we all have Daniel 7 and Romans 2 "in our actual Bibles" instead of having to rely on this pontifical rulings from you... as we call can see.

What did I state that the Sda holds to that was not true though? You still hold to all that was mentioned, correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

Hint the list I gave above --


Includes not one Bible writer. Details matter and your post relies on the idea of ignoring "details" ... why keep doing that??



Read 1 Corinthians 12, 1 Corinthians 14:1 or Numbers 12 lately???

Why keep posting against the text of scripture??



Making stuff up again?
Creative writing again?

Try this... "read" .. I did not even mention pork... I mentioned mice.

I said this -- Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

Look "again".
read.

It is you that posts "nonstop pork"








Yes I am ... meditate on it for a while.

Where does the scripture indicate to us that the offices of prophets/Apostles carried on after the Apostolic Age ended though?

 

[BobRyan]

Where does the scripture indicate to us that the offices of prophets/Apostles carried on after the Apostolic Age ended though?

IN 1 Cor 12 God tell us about those gifts - given to the church

1 Corinthians 14 INSTRUCTS us to seek them... specifically one of them

Reading the Bible AND accepting it -- is a big deal for some Christians -- such as Adventists.
Imagining that "the day after a text was penned it was obsoleted by God" is not an actual Bible principle of study. It is "fluff".

Those who "wish" to imagine such things bear the burden of "missing proof" for their wild conjecture.

(And of course there is always Ephesians 4... )

 

[BobRyan]

Yeshua1 said: ↑
The Sda still has that heresy of the Investigative Judgement, !

Pontifical ruling on your part?
creative writing?
wishful thinking?

In the mean time - we all have Daniel 7 and Romans 2 "in our actual Bibles" instead of having to rely on this pontifical rulings from you... as we call can see.

What did I state that the Sda holds to that was not true though? You still hold to all that was mentioned, correct?

You "imagined for us" that the doctrine on the judgment is "not true" -- I pointed you to just a few examples of texts that outright refute the speculation you offer.

 

[steaver]

I only mentioned mice... you are the one that is hair-on-fire over the pork topic.

Oh. Remind us what your pointing to mice eating was in response to?

 

[steaver]

Oh. Remind us what your pointing to mice eating was in response to?

Hey found it.....

Does Jesus have a double standard? He holds pork eating as a damnable sin for a few (the ones you say have been given light) while letting the masses of His children eat all the pork they want and still be saved?

Which you answered....

Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?
.

So what connect are you making between pork eating and mice eating? Please explain.

 

[BobRyan]

Oh. Remind us what your pointing to mice eating was in response to?

Other people have their agendas - mine is to read scripture and believe it.

I think you were on your favorite "every topic is a pork topic".

I was on my favorite -- "read the Bible and believe it" topic where I say Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

and then you declare that it is evil to read the Bible and accept what it says for some odd reason

steaver said: ↑
Does Jesus have a double standard? He holds pork eating as a damnable sin

Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

“But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
As they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So I will choose their punishments
And will bring on them what they dread.
Because I called, but no one answered;
I spoke, but they did not listen.
And they did evil in My sight
And chose that in which I did not delight.”
...
15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
And His chariots like the whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the Lord will be many.
.
17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord

John 9
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.
.

Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

“But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
As they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So I will choose their punishments
And will bring on them what they dread.
Because I called, but no one answered;
I spoke, but they did not listen.
And they did evil in My sight
And chose that in which I did not delight.”
...
15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
And His chariots like the whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the Lord will be many.
.
17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord

John 9
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.

=============================

Then you went off on what appears to be "Ellen White wrote parts of the Bible how dare you quote those texts" kind of posts.

For reasons that are innexplicable

 

[steaver]

Other people have their agendas - mine is to read scripture and believe it.

I think you were on your favorite "every topic is a pork topic".

I found it Bob....

steaver said: ↑
Does Jesus have a double standard? He holds pork eating as a damnable sin for a few (the ones you say have been given light) while letting the masses of His children eat all the pork they want and still be saved?

You answered with...

BobRyan said: ↑
Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

So what connection was you making between my pork eating question and your mice eating answer? Please explain.

 

[BobRyan]

steaver said: ↑
Does Jesus have a double standard? He holds pork eating as a damnable sin

Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

Isaiah 66
“But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
As they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So I will choose their punishments
And will bring on them what they dread.
Because I called, but no one answered;
I spoke, but they did not listen.
And they did evil in My sight
And chose that in which I did not delight.”
...
15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
And His chariots like the whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the Lord will be many.
.
17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord

John 9
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.

I found it Bob...

steaver said: ↑
Does Jesus have a double standard? He holds pork eating as a damnable sin for a few (the ones you say have been given light) while letting the masses of His children eat all the pork they want and still be saved?

You answered with...

BobRyan said: ↑
Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?
.

Nice find Steaver -- I think I have posted the link to it about a dozen times now. Still nice to have everyone on the same page... finally.

This was my "actual" posted response.

Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

Isaiah 66
“But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol.
As they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So I will choose their punishments
And will bring on them what they dread.
Because I called, but no one answered;
I spoke, but they did not listen.
And they did evil in My sight
And chose that in which I did not delight.”
...
15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire
And His chariots like the whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on all flesh,
And those slain by the Lord will be many.
.
17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat swine’s flesh, detestable things and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord

John 9
41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains.

================================

Which of course you did include "except for all that Bible quoting, Bible details, Bible reading" I called for in my post... you know 'the usual'

 

[BobRyan]

I find it hard to believe that on this "Walter Martin admits SDA denomination is not a cult" thread - the best you can find to oppose it is to show that you "must not quote" the Isaiah 66 statements about eating mice.!!

That is truly "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader

 

[Yeshua1]

IN 1 Cor 12 God tell us about those gifts - given to the church

1 Corinthians 14 INSTRUCTS us to seek them... specifically one of them

Reading the Bible AND accepting it -- is a big deal for some Christians -- such as Adventists.
Imagining that "the day after a text was penned it was obsoleted by God" is not an actual Bible principle of study. It is "fluff".

Those who "wish" to imagine such things bear the burden of "missing proof" for their wild conjecture.

(And of course there is always Ephesians 4... )

The gift of prophesy was NOT the same thing as being a prophet/Apostle, for the gift of prophesy was a mix of error and God, but Prophets/Apostles always spoke the word of the Lord.
EW has failed to demonstart that she saw the risen Jesus, was commissioned by Him as a prophetess, and she fails the test of having her doctrines agree with the scriptures!

 

[Yeshua1]

You "imagined for us" that the doctrine on the judgment is "not true" -- I pointed you to just a few examples of texts that outright refute the speculation you offer.

Jesus staed to us that right NOW we have passed from eternal death unto life, so how can one lose eternal life?

 

[steaver]

Nice find Steaver -- I think I have posted the link to it about a dozen times now. Still nice to have everyone on the same page... finally.

This was my "actual" posted response.

Isaiah 66 says someone is going to burn in hell for eating mice... you knew that right?

Yes, you already stressed that you did not address my pork eating question and that you addressed mice eating (right there in bold). You have been adamant about that. So go ahead now and address my question about pork eating, not mice eating.

 

[steaver]

In fact your made it clear....

I only mentioned mice... you are the one that is hair-on-fire over the pork topic.

So we need you to address my pork eating question.....

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, you already stressed that you did not address my pork eating question and that you addressed mice eating (right there in bold). You have been adamant about that. So go ahead now and address my question about pork eating, not mice eating.

He keeps dodging the pork and Sabbath question!