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The Mystery of the Gospel of Jesus Christ
- Thread starter Darrell C
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The denial of scripture is the hallmark of false doctrine.
We were made sinners. To deny it is to deny scripture.
Those God transfers into Christ are made righteous.
By the numbers:
1) The gospel of Christ was mentioned in the Old Testament, but not presented clearly, thus the gospel of Christ had been a mystery within the Old Testament.
2) But in the New Testament, the Gospel of Christ was presented clearly, and is no longer a mystery to those who accept what scripture says rather than rewrite it according to some man-made doctrine.
3) Part of the Gospel is we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
4) Part of the Gospel is we were made righteous through the blood of Christ
5) Part of the Gospel is Christ died for all mankind, a truth partially revealed in the Old Testament.
We were made sinners. To deny it is to deny scripture.
Those God transfers into Christ are made righteous.
By the numbers:
1) The gospel of Christ was mentioned in the Old Testament, but not presented clearly, thus the gospel of Christ had been a mystery within the Old Testament.
2) But in the New Testament, the Gospel of Christ was presented clearly, and is no longer a mystery to those who accept what scripture says rather than rewrite it according to some man-made doctrine.
3) Part of the Gospel is we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth.
4) Part of the Gospel is we were made righteous through the blood of Christ
5) Part of the Gospel is Christ died for all mankind, a truth partially revealed in the Old Testament.
Being justified in Christ, we are not sinners in the eyes of God. But we think and do sinful things, and so we strive with the help of our indwelt Holy Spirit, to be more like our sinless Lord and Savior.
I skipped over most of the last 7 pages so someone probably mentioned this.
There are IMO 2 "mysteries" (formerly unrevealed truth) of the gospel.
1) That the promised messiah - deliverer/restorer from sin - would be God come in the flesh.
2) The gentiles would be full recipients of the messianic promise.
There are IMO 2 "mysteries" (formerly unrevealed truth) of the gospel.
1) That the promised messiah - deliverer/restorer from sin - would be God come in the flesh.
2) The gentiles would be full recipients of the messianic promise.
Again, the messiah was not a mystery.
Each of these knew of the promise of redemption and such was NOT hidden, but looked forward to as a promise by God through the law and the prophets.
What WAS hidden from the prophets and the law was that there would be a “church.”
The great assembly of all believers from all time
That is the “mystery of the Gospel.” Not that the Gospel was the mystery, but the mystery OF the gospel.
This thinking and posting that the message and work of Christ was in some manner a hidden secrete from the ancients is false.
Do the folks not know that even our Lord pointed to the law and prophets because, “they spoke of me (Him).”
If they (law and prophets) spoke of Him, then there is no mystery of the gospel.
The mystery is the church, that which was never revealed in the law or prophets.
Each of these knew of the promise of redemption and such was NOT hidden, but looked forward to as a promise by God through the law and the prophets.
Elizabeth:
If the Scriptures to the Jews were a benefit, as all the law and prophets do, they point to both a redeemer and ruler messiah. A delivering messiah from both physical and spiritual oppression.“Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42In a loud voice she exclaimed: “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! 43But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”
Zachariah:“76And you, my child, will be called a prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord to prepare the way for him,
77to give his people the knowcledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
78because of the tender mercy of our God,”
Simeon:77to give his people the knowcledge of salvation through the forgiveness of their sins,
78because of the tender mercy of our God,”
What WAS hidden from the prophets and the law was that there would be a “church.”
The great assembly of all believers from all time
That is the “mystery of the Gospel.” Not that the Gospel was the mystery, but the mystery OF the gospel.
This thinking and posting that the message and work of Christ was in some manner a hidden secrete from the ancients is false.
Do the folks not know that even our Lord pointed to the law and prophets because, “they spoke of me (Him).”
If they (law and prophets) spoke of Him, then there is no mystery of the gospel.
The mystery is the church, that which was never revealed in the law or prophets.
The Messiah was not a mystery but that He would be the incarnation of the I AM was.
Another "mystery" I thought of was that He would through His blood atonement make the Holy of Holies beyond the veil accessible to humankind through the High Priest sacrifice of the New Covenant after the order of Melchizedek.
whosoever will may come.
There is NO EXCUSE!
Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent,
Another "mystery" I thought of was that He would through His blood atonement make the Holy of Holies beyond the veil accessible to humankind through the High Priest sacrifice of the New Covenant after the order of Melchizedek.
whosoever will may come.
There is NO EXCUSE!
Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent,
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I disagree, Hank.
What the teaching of the promise was is that there would be a suffering Messiah that would raise to the level of being both the political and spiritual redeemer.
In the temple/tabernacle days, the blood atonement was a picture of the promised messiah, but what was hidden (and you are correct in this) was that torn veil significant as all may come, the salvation is for all, no longer hidden from the all and only the appointed could see and occasionally enter. (This is part of the Melchizedek teaching of Paul).
Your Acts 17 verse supports that all people without regard to station, gender, or ethnicity are included, This was the mystery - the church.
The great “unveiling,” that great rending of the curtain, was not disclosing of the gospel, for the blood of substitution had long been presented as the promised messiah, but the availability of that gospel to all, the forming of the body of believers, the assembly, the church that was hidden.
OK that sounds good
Hank, you are a worker of peace.OK that sounds good
What part of the earth do you desire to inherit?
HawaiiHank, you are a worker of peace.
What part of the earth do you desire to inherit?
What you have done is set up an unbiblical standard "go into Genesis" to show that Abraham understood this. I will tell you that it is not necessary to go into Genesis to show you this as it is never addressed there, however I can prove it elsewhere in scripture:
John 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.”
Luk_24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
Luk 24:25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.
Not sure why that has to be explained.
Uh I thought, according to Calvinism, our natures were changed.
Hi Revmitchell, yes one of the ploys used by Calvinists is to assert non-Calvinist doctrine apparently to muddy the water, but your cited example may be purely accidental. In any event, those who have been born anew love God and strive to keep His commands.
Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Romans 8:28
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Still have old sin nature, but now also have the new nature in us....
So where does scripture delineate these two natures?
On the contrary, I have set the highest Biblical Standard, and have challenged him, and you, to show Abraham having an understanding of the Gospel.
That is the point of the thread, RevMitchell, to discuss the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ, which was not revealed in Ages past, to generations past, to the saints, but is now revealed unto His holy Apostles and Prophets.
That is basic in Paul's teaching, so if you want to challenge my view...
...welcome to the thread!
BIngo!
Abraham was obedient to the revelation given him, but, he was not eternally redeemed through the Cross until Christ died in his stead.
You can prove Paul was in error to teach that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was the hidden wisdom of God in a mystery? And that no man had the Mystery revealed to them until the Spirit came?
I think not, but you are welcome to try.
And what you do not consider is that this woman had something Abraham did not have...the Written Word of God.
The disciples had revealed to them by the Father that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God...
Matthew 16:13-17
King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
So they had been shown He was the Messiah prophesied of, but, don't confuse that with the Mystery of the Gospel. When Christ gives the Gospel on one of the few occasions He does so, Peter is in opposition to the very Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 16:20-23
King James Version (KJV)
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
So you fail in this proof text to challenge my position.
If the Disciples of Christ were not privy, I think we can safely say that Paul's teaching remains intact, yours is denied, and the woman at the well remains only with revelation within the framework of the Age of Law.
No-one has said that the Gospel is not found in the Old Testament, or that they do not testify of Christ.
The focus is that understanding was not found in the Old Testament.
Again, your proof text does not deny Paul's teaching, and I am not sure why you would want to, unless you are one of those who rejects Paul's teachings.
The Lord had an understanding, but they did not.
The Jews expected a literal man to literally take up a throne, remove Israel's enemies, and restore the Kingdom unto Israel. And from that time he would not fail to have a descendant on that throne.
Consider the carnal nature of the disciples' minds here:
Acts 1:4-7
King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Have you ever given much thought to what happens here, RM? They are just told, "You are going to be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence," and they are still desirous of an earthly kingdom?
Here is why: because most of those who stand in leadership in the Body...
...do not teach some basic facts.
The reason? Most of them are so busy making Scripture conform to their Systems of Theology that they seldom take the time to look at Scripture outside of their proff texting efforts.
Now, the challenge goes out to you, RevMitchell, if you think you can show that men were trusting in the Risen Savior prior to Pentecost.
I will tell you now...you will not be able to do that, because you will have to first find someone that understood the Gospel, and then you will have to explain why you are right, and Paul is wrong.
Secondly, not sure what you think you have "explained" here, but I can assure you, you have not "explained" how it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ was revealed in past ages and generations to the sons of men, or the saints (which is all inclusive of men).
God bless.
ALL who have ever been saved, whether in OT or NT, were saved on the basis of the Cross of Christ, and them having faith in what was revealed to them by God concerning that event.On the contrary, I have set the highest Biblical Standard, and have challenged him, and you, to show Abraham having an understanding of the Gospel.
That is the point of the thread, RevMitchell, to discuss the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ, which was not revealed in Ages past, to generations past, to the saints, but is now revealed unto His holy Apostles and Prophets.
That is basic in Paul's teaching, so if you want to challenge my view...
...welcome to the thread!
BIngo!
Abraham was obedient to the revelation given him, but, he was not eternally redeemed through the Cross until Christ died in his stead.
You can prove Paul was in error to teach that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was the hidden wisdom of God in a mystery? And that no man had the Mystery revealed to them until the Spirit came?
I think not, but you are welcome to try.
And what you do not consider is that this woman had something Abraham did not have...the Written Word of God.
The disciples had revealed to them by the Father that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God...
Matthew 16:13-17
King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
So they had been shown He was the Messiah prophesied of, but, don't confuse that with the Mystery of the Gospel. When Christ gives the Gospel on one of the few occasions He does so, Peter is in opposition to the very Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 16:20-23
King James Version (KJV)
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
So you fail in this proof text to challenge my position.
If the Disciples of Christ were not privy, I think we can safely say that Paul's teaching remains intact, yours is denied, and the woman at the well remains only with revelation within the framework of the Age of Law.
No-one has said that the Gospel is not found in the Old Testament, or that they do not testify of Christ.
The focus is that understanding was not found in the Old Testament.
Again, your proof text does not deny Paul's teaching, and I am not sure why you would want to, unless you are one of those who rejects Paul's teachings.
The Lord had an understanding, but they did not.
The Jews expected a literal man to literally take up a throne, remove Israel's enemies, and restore the Kingdom unto Israel. And from that time he would not fail to have a descendant on that throne.
Consider the carnal nature of the disciples' minds here:
Acts 1:4-7
King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Have you ever given much thought to what happens here, RM? They are just told, "You are going to be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence," and they are still desirous of an earthly kingdom?
Here is why: because most of those who stand in leadership in the Body...
...do not teach some basic facts.
The reason? Most of them are so busy making Scripture conform to their Systems of Theology that they seldom take the time to look at Scripture outside of their proff texting efforts.
Now, the challenge goes out to you, RevMitchell, if you think you can show that men were trusting in the Risen Savior prior to Pentecost.
I will tell you now...you will not be able to do that, because you will have to first find someone that understood the Gospel, and then you will have to explain why you are right, and Paul is wrong.
Secondly, not sure what you think you have "explained" here, but I can assure you, you have not "explained" how it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ was revealed in past ages and generations to the sons of men, or the saints (which is all inclusive of men).
God bless.
The OT saints looked forward, while we have the greater revelation knowledge, and look back to the Cross.
Its really a measure of just how much revelation God was granting towards His own in which time in history here...
On the contrary, I have set the highest Biblical Standard, and have challenged him, and you, to show Abraham having an understanding of the Gospel.
That is the point of the thread, RevMitchell, to discuss the Mystery of the Gospel of Christ, which was not revealed in Ages past, to generations past, to the saints, but is now revealed unto His holy Apostles and Prophets.
That is basic in Paul's teaching, so if you want to challenge my view...
...welcome to the thread!
BIngo!
Abraham was obedient to the revelation given him, but, he was not eternally redeemed through the Cross until Christ died in his stead.
You can prove Paul was in error to teach that the Gospel of Jesus Christ was the hidden wisdom of God in a mystery? And that no man had the Mystery revealed to them until the Spirit came?
I think not, but you are welcome to try.
And what you do not consider is that this woman had something Abraham did not have...the Written Word of God.
The disciples had revealed to them by the Father that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God...
Matthew 16:13-17
King James Version (KJV)
13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
So they had been shown He was the Messiah prophesied of, but, don't confuse that with the Mystery of the Gospel. When Christ gives the Gospel on one of the few occasions He does so, Peter is in opposition to the very Gospel of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 16:20-23
King James Version (KJV)
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
So you fail in this proof text to challenge my position.
If the Disciples of Christ were not privy, I think we can safely say that Paul's teaching remains intact, yours is denied, and the woman at the well remains only with revelation within the framework of the Age of Law.
No-one has said that the Gospel is not found in the Old Testament, or that they do not testify of Christ.
The focus is that understanding was not found in the Old Testament.
Again, your proof text does not deny Paul's teaching, and I am not sure why you would want to, unless you are one of those who rejects Paul's teachings.
The Lord had an understanding, but they did not.
The Jews expected a literal man to literally take up a throne, remove Israel's enemies, and restore the Kingdom unto Israel. And from that time he would not fail to have a descendant on that throne.
Consider the carnal nature of the disciples' minds here:
Acts 1:4-7
King James Version (KJV)
4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Have you ever given much thought to what happens here, RM? They are just told, "You are going to be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence," and they are still desirous of an earthly kingdom?
Here is why: because most of those who stand in leadership in the Body...
...do not teach some basic facts.
The reason? Most of them are so busy making Scripture conform to their Systems of Theology that they seldom take the time to look at Scripture outside of their proff texting efforts.
Now, the challenge goes out to you, RevMitchell, if you think you can show that men were trusting in the Risen Savior prior to Pentecost.
I will tell you now...you will not be able to do that, because you will have to first find someone that understood the Gospel, and then you will have to explain why you are right, and Paul is wrong.
Secondly, not sure what you think you have "explained" here, but I can assure you, you have not "explained" how it is the Gospel of Jesus Christ was revealed in past ages and generations to the sons of men, or the saints (which is all inclusive of men).
God bless.
Your mistake, and it is a weird one, is that you believe that the entire gospel was a mystery. How embarrassing, this is what they mystery was:
Eph_3:6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs,
Boom, mystery over and that was not the entire gospel. Now do I have to break it down an explain what "fellow heirs" means to you?
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