Featured Can Exodus 32:33 Ever Refer to Believers?

Is that book i nExodus the one of the living, or the book of eternal life though?

 

Perseverance of the Saints from the scriptures.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning (James 1:17).


But, God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life (Romans 5:8-10).


And, this is the promise that He hath promised us, even eternal life (1 John 2:25).


And, for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance (Hebrews 9:15).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” (John 6:47).


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” (John 5:24).


“Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal” (Matthew 25:45-46).


That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life (John 3:15-16).


Then said Jesus unto the twelve, “Will ye also go away?” Then Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life” (John 6:67-68).


These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17:1-3).


Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation m received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God (1 Peter 1:18-21).


I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15).


And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose (Romans 8:28).


“For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. How think ye? If a man have a hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And, if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish” (Matthew 18:11-14).


“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And, I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. I and my Father are one” (John 10:27-30).


“And, this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day” (John 6:39).


“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition [Judas]; that the scripture might be fulfilled” (John 17:12).

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not (1 John 5:18).


“But, if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace: But, when a stronger than he shall come upon him, and overcome him, he taketh from him all his armour wherein he trusted, and divideth his spoils” (Luke 11:20-22).


Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that in you, than he that is in the world
(1 John 4:4).


There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it (1 Corinthians 10:13).



“For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24).



They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us (1 John 2:19).


Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God upon every remembrance of you, Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy, For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now; Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:2-6).



And, the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen (2 Timothy 4:18).


Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen (Jude 24-25).


The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD ; and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand. I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread. He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed (Psalm 37:23-26).


And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24).


“Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not” (Luke 22:31).

 

No. All men are in the Book of Life. Being blotted out of the Book of Life is the destiny of those who die separated from God. We see David ask that his enemies, ultimately the enemies of Christ, be blotted from the book of life:


Psalm 69:20-28
King James Version (KJV)

20 Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none.

21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.

22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.

26 For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.

27 Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness.

28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.



Something to keep in mind is that in Moses' Day, no man was yet being born of God, reconciled to God, or obtaining Eternal Life, which comes only through faith in Jesus Christ, and began when Christ came, died, resurrected, returned to Heaven, and began baptizing men with the Holy Ghost, which in Acts 11 is defined as the moment of salvation:


Acts 11:13-18
King James Version (KJV)

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.


We see how men are born of God:


John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


So in order for one to support a concept of born again believers being blotted from the Book of Life, they would have to show why the Lord was in error to teach that those who believed on Him could die, contrary to His Own teaching:


John 10:27-29
King James Version (KJV)

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.



John 6:47-51
King James Version (KJV)

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.


Christ died that He might bestow the same eternal life that was so prominent in His teaching.

There is no passage in Scripture that teaches that those who have been made alive in Christ can die.


Continued...

 

You err in calling them believers. Those who were among the Hebrew brethren he writes to who had evil hearts of unbelief were no more believers than those who fell in the Wilderness:


Hebrews 3:18-19
King James Version (KJV)

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


He gives the example of Israel sinning against God in the Wilderness, and warns those he preaches to not to replicate their unbelief and not enter into the Rest that the "rest" promised to Israel was but a physical shadow of:


Hebrews 4
King James Version (KJV)

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Chapter Three is about the "Rebellion" of unbelieving Israel in the Wilderness.

You seem to try to impose a condition of apostasy in a context of believers here, though I hope I have that wrong. Because you think the writer speaks of believers having an evil heart of unbelief, rather than there being among the Hebrews brethren he writes those who were unbelievers, you miss the point of his lesson. He is contrasting why they did not receive the promise in the wilderness with why those he writes to won't receive it (Rest). There is no good Christian/bad Christian context, it is simply a warning not to be unbelieving.

He basically says have faith in the Gospel you are hearing.

And it is just a fact that God still ends the physical lives of believers for sin. Ananias and Sapphira are two examples, as well as though who died for partaking of Communion unworthily. In view is physical death, not losing that which Christ taught was everlasting.

We have eternal life due to His indwelling of us at salvation, which He taught would be eternal:


John 14:15-17
King James Version (KJV)

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.



John 14:22-23
King James Version (KJV)

22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.



Eternal life is not a substance poured on a believer when they are saved.

It is the Person of God the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost indwelling man as Christ taught above. And if you notice, Christ is teaching this is something that will happen in the future. The disciples had not been baptized with the Holy Ghost yet. They had not been baptized into Christ yet. They were not yet eternally indwelt by God.

There are zero verses that teach born again believers die. None.


God bless.

 

I did that.

Again, not a scenario of bad Christian/Good Christian. Apparently you think salvation is achieved if you are good. That is works-based salvation and damnable demon doctrine.

If you pay attention, you will see that the Writer draws a comparison between the unbelievers of Old Testament Israel and the unbelievers of Israel in his day:


Hebrews 10:28-29
King James Version (KJV)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


In view are those that rejected the Covenant of Law (called here Moses' Law, also called the First Covenant in Hebrews) and those who reject...

1. Christ, as they have not believed on Him, but trod Him under foot;
2. His Sacrifice, by which He...was sanctified;
3. The New Covenant;
4. And the ministry of the Spirit of God, the Comforter.

And you think a believer is in view.

Totally absurd.

Great, Now that you have been shown that unbelievers are in view...read it again.

The reason there is "no more sacrifice for sins" is because they are rejecting the only Sacrifice by which one can be saved.

The Writer makes the same statement when it applies to those who are saved here...


Hebrews 10:15-18
King James Version (KJV)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.


Now, you will either embrace the teachings of demons, and believe God does not honor His promises, or, you will embrace the teachings of God as conveyed by this Writer.

Here, when sins are forgiven...there is no more sacrifice for sins, because they are under the New Covenant and receive of those promises.

Here...


Hebrews 10:26-29
King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


...there is no more sacrifice for sins because it has been rejected, just like men rejected the First Covenant, and suffered the consequences.

A very appropriate quote when speaking to...Jews.

That is why it is called the Book of Hebrews, my friend. Not the Book of Christians.


Continued...

 

I can't do that, because the One Who was sanctified...


Hebrews 10:26-29
King James Version (KJV)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


...is Christ. The New Covenant was established on His death:


Matthew 26:28
King James Version (KJV)

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


"Testament" refers to the Covenant, not the New Testament writings.

Sure:


1 Corinthians 7:13-14
King James Version (KJV)

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.


There you have it, a sanctified unbeliever.




Continued...

 

And you call them believers.

Absurd.

Not what the text states:


Hebrews 10:29
King James Version (KJV)

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


It is the Blood, the Death of Christ by which He (Christ) was sanctified.

These men count His death as...unholy.

And you call them believers.

Absurd.

And you call them believers.

Absurd.

Now you are getting, it, because we have the same unbelievers in view here that we have in Hebrews 3.

One of these days you should get around to reading this most awesome of Epistles.

I have read it, as well as studied it (there is a difference, you know).

Your ignorance shows you haven't a clue as to the teachings found within.


Continued...

 

Do you hear yourself? "The Writer is using unbelievers to represent believers."

Absurd.

How do you get believers out of those who are pointedly stated as unbelievers?

How do you get born again believers from those who reject Christ, His Sacrifice, His Covenant, and the Holy Ghost?

Correct, those who have evil hearts of unbelief, reject Christ, His Covenant, His Sacrifice, and the Ministry of the Comforter...

...shall not enter into His Rest.

That is the whole point of the warnings.

Right, if we hold fast our confidence, rather than having evil hearts of unbelief.

Step into the reality of the teachings, leave the damnable demon doctrine behind.

You are expressing that evil heart of unbelief because just like the Children of Israel doubted in God's Promises, so do you. What part of...


John 10:27-29
King James Version (KJV)

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


...is it that you don't want to believe?

You can trust Jesus Christ.

And until you do, perhaps you might reconsider calling yourself "saved by grace."


God bless.

 

God has never rejected one of His own elect, as he always preserved a faithful remnant throughout the OT unto Himself, see Elijah!

 

It was written to Jewish Christians, but, the problem you are having is understanding that this Writer does not assume they are all saved, hence the warnings.

Here is another rebuke he gives which you yourself need to heed:


Hebrews 5:10-14
King James Version (KJV)

10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


These Hebrew brethren are ignorant and lazy, and though they should be teachers, since apparently they have been hanging around quite a while, they have need to be taught again the ABCs of the Hebrew Scriptures.

He can't expound on Christ as he wants to...because they are ignorant of the basics.

He tells them...


Hebrews 6
King James Version (KJV)

1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3 And this will we do, if God permit.


He warns them not to lay again the foundational principles, but to go on unto perfection, which speaks of the Completion found in Christ, contrasted with that which was foundational.

No, the Writer (who I also think was Paul, though no-one can be dogmatic about it) says "See what happened to people who were not believing in the Wilderness...don't let that happen to you!"

Correct, Hebrew brethren.

Consider:

Romans 9
King James Version (KJV)

1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


"Brethren" does not mean they are Christians, it simply means they are Jews. And if you study the Book of Hebrews you will see numerous warnings given to...Jews.

Twaddle.

Correct, the Rest of Chapter 4 is speaking of salvation in Christ. The "rest" in Chapter Three is physical (entrance to the land, rest from enemies, great provision, etc.).

And Chapter Three is given as an example of unbelief which led to not entering that rest, and the warning and exhortation is "Don't make the same mistake they made. Do not be unbelieving. Have faith in the Gospel."


You cannot call yourself saved by grace and preach the doctrine of demons which teaches works-based salvation. You will need to change your name to "saved by grace and hope I'm good enough to make it all the way to Heaven by being good enough."


God bless.

 

And that is a physical relationship, not an eternal relationship.

God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. The world includes Israel. Do you not understand that Israel was awaiting Redemption?

Not one person of the Nation of Israel was baptized into Christ and made one in Him with Gentiles:


Ephesians 2:15
King James Version (KJV)

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;


Both Jew and Greek were saved through Christ, and not a minute prior to His coming, His death, His Resurrection, His return to Heaven, and His sending of the Comforter.

The Lord will keep His promises to Israel:


Romans 11
King James Version (KJV)

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,


Sure, individual men of Israel were cut out, but, you cannot throw out the entire nation with the bathwater:


Romans 11:25-27
King James Version (KJV)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Absolutely. We are "better" because the Mystery of the Gospel has been revealed to us by the Spirit.

Apparently you have never actually done that. If you had, you would not make idiotic statements like "Brethren always refers to Christians" and "God has rejected Israel."

He didn't, that is simply the doctrine demon talking. Syllogistic conclusions drawn from proof-texted false doctrine.

There is one Supreme reason...God.

Because you misidentify unbelievers as believers you come to some drastic, demonic conclusions, and again, I would definitely suggest you change your name.

"Saved by grace" just isn't applicable to one who teaches works-based salvation and rejects the teachings of Christ.


God bless.

 

Within the ranks of those that has this letter addressed unto them, were those who Paul described as being of the earthly Jerusalem, and those of the Jerusalem from above, the spiritual Jerusalem. Both saved and lost.

 

You have had nothing to say to being with.

You are in error on everything...everything...you have sought to teach.

I like to think of it as it has made me impervious to damnable demon doctrine.

So recognize the simple truths pointed out to you, or continue to gnash your teeth.

But by all means change your name.

"Saved-by-Grace...as long as I keep myself saved" perhaps"

No, too long. How about an acronym?

S.O.S.? "Sort of Saved?"

O.R.T.S.? "On Road to Salvation?"

I dunno, you decide. But if you keep Saved by Grace, at least do yourself the justice of actually learning what that means so you don't continue to make a fool of yourself in public.


God bless.