The Winepress of the Wrath of God.

[Iconoclast]

agedman,

Well, I came back and had to remove the agreement.

I knew you would

The blood shed on the cross was not a "covenant death"

Many do not agree with you . The Covenant making and Covenant keeping God has indeed dealt with the sheep by Covenant.
The death on the cross was clearly a Covenant arraingement.

for the lack of blood did not cause the death.

not sure what you are thinking about with this...

Christ caused his own death,

Jesus was not a suicide ....
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

he gave His life,

Yes He did
[QUOTE]it was not taken from Him by the events,[/QUOTE]

it was......".ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:"

nor the suffering, nor the lack of blood (which on the cross was little compared to other places).

It was not the amount of blood.....it was what it accomplished.

He accomplished the Covenant death, and Redemption on behalf of the elect the Father had given to Him.
It was actual...not potential....it was for the elect alone.

The blood sprinkled upon the OT covering was for all the people in the land irregardless of whether they were jews or not, or whether they even considered the yearly sacrifice important.

No...the twelve stones on the breastplate of the High Priest represented who he interceded for.

By type, the blood was shed for all creation (John 3) without regard.

No...Jesus bought the rights to all men, but the design was never to save all.
17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

However, the death is a completely other matter. For it is by His death and resurrection that the believer sees the repeated message in the NT.

Apart from the Covenant between the Father and the Son it would not help us.

The emphasis of the redeemed is not just the blood - that importance is not diminished.
The emphasis of the redeemed is upon the death and resurrection - that is what the writers emphasized.

You repeat this, but divorced from the Covenant promise it does not mean what the terms of the Covenant demand.....all the promises.

Now, I realize that some of the reformed still cling to the limit of blood as the limit of atonement.

Everyone limits the atonement....everybody except reprobate universalists.

But just as back in the most ancient OT, it was not the lack of blood, but the lack of belief that separated the eternal estate.

Blood sacrifice is all through the bible:
20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Blood was shed for all, but not all believe.

Blood was shed for all who will believe before the White Throne judgment...not for unbelievers.....they do not want the blood, or the Mediator...they perish in their sins...plural

That is evidenced in how John 3:16+ flows. The emphasis is not the blood but belief.

I do not agree at all....the only reason any believe is the Covenant....without which no one would ever believe.,

 

[Iconoclast]

What city?:

20 And the winepress are trodden without the city, and there came out blood from the winepress, even unto the bridles of the horses, as far as a thousand and six hundred furlongs. Rev 14

I think it is apostate Jerusalem in the first century:
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

 

[Robert William]

God does not love everybody.

Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[Robert William]

Well, I came back and had to remove the agreement.

The blood shed on the cross was not a "covenant death" for the lack of blood did not cause the death. Christ caused his own death, he gave His life, it was not taken from Him by the events, nor the suffering, nor the lack of blood (which on the cross was little compared to other places).

The blood sprinkled upon the OT covering was for all the people in the land irregardless of whether they were jews or not, or whether they even considered the yearly sacrifice important.

By type, the blood was shed for all creation (John 3) without regard.

However, the death is a completely other matter. For it is by His death and resurrection that the believer sees the repeated message in the NT.

The emphasis of the redeemed is not just the blood - that importance is not diminished.

The emphasis of the redeemed is upon the death and resurrection - that is what the writers emphasized.

Now, I realize that some of the reformed still cling to the limit of blood as the limit of atonement. But just as back in the most ancient OT, it was not the lack of blood, but the lack of belief that separated the eternal estate.

Blood was shed for all, but not all believe.

That is evidenced in how John 3:16+ flows. The emphasis is not the blood but belief.

Jesus said I lay down my life for the sheep, there are those who are not His sheep and He didn't Atone for them.
Sadly most preachers teach that Christ Atoned for the sins of ALL humans, they don't realize they are teaching universal salvation which is not scriptural.

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus said I lay down my life for the sheep, there are those who are not His sheep and He didn't Atone for them.
Sadly most preachers teach that Christ Atoned for the sins of ALL humans, they don't realize they are teaching universal salvation which is not scriptural.

IF Jesus death provided all to have their sins atoned for, and are reconciled back to God, why are they still lost in hell?

 

[Yeshua1]

I think it is apostate Jerusalem in the first century:
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

I see that as the world system to be toppled at time oif the Second Coming of Christ