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Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by 1689Dave, Apr 18, 2018.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    All the time, I do it but that is not the point. Tcassidy's post makes your post unnecessary.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You and I have been agreeing with each other way too much today.
     
  3. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    LOL! I agree! It is almost painful. We have to stop this. What will the Hatfields and McCoys think of us getting along so well! :D:D:D
     
  4. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I gather what the initial poster meant by his questions is the conflict between pentecostal/apostolic churches which demand the words "in the name of Jesus..." be said v. the traditional protestant and evangelical churches which always (that I have heard) say "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit..."

    It's pleasing to see quite a few know that is not a formula, but an acknowledgement of authority. But I have found disagreement in Baptist churches, in which most members apparently will insist that FS&H must be said for it to be a valid baptism. The opposition, which I have only heard on media with very few exceptions, are in cultic assault mode when they talk about it... one said "I'll give you a hundred dollars if you can show me one place in scripture where a believer was baptized and the name Jesus wasn't said!"

    Probably needless to say, "...in the name of Jesus..." most definitely is a formula to them-- a formula for healing, for changing the course of hurricane, for giving God any order as if he were Aladdin's genie and cannot refuse.
     
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  5. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think it takes a lot of "interpretation" to say baptizing in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is found in Acts instead of Baptizing in the Name of Jesus Christ.


    Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38) (KJV 1900)

    Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.” (Acts 3:6) (KJV 1900)

    And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.” (Acts 4:18) (KJV 1900)

    And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.” (Acts 5:40) (KJV 1900)

    But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.” (Acts 9:27) (KJV 1900)

    And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.” (Acts 16:18) (KJV 1900)

    (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)” (Acts 8:16) (KJV 1900)

    And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him.” (Acts 9:29) (KJV 1900)

    And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” (Acts 10:48) (KJV 1900)

    When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” (Acts 19:5) (KJV 1900)

    And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:11) (KJV 1900)

    And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.” (Colossians 3:17) (KJV 1900)


    Etc. etc. etc.....
     
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  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    When we approach the issue of Baptism we have to keep in mind what Baptism means to the First Century Jew, and the Biblical usage both literal and figurative.


    When we look at Acts 2:38 baptism signifies washing (cleansing), immersion, and identification. When Peter states that they must be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, it is not to say "If you are baptized you will receive remission of sins," it is to say "You will be identified with Jesus Christ through Whom Remission of Sins is obtained.

    When John baptized...


    Matthew 3
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,

    2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.

    4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

    5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

    6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.



    ...those being baptized by John already had repentance, hence they confessed their sins.

    But when those who had not repented came...


    7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?

    8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:



    ...he refused to baptize them, and rebuked them, and warned them of the judgment they sat under:


    9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

    10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.



    In view is eternal judgment. In v.8 he demands they go and do that which will evidence repentance, or in other words "...prove it!"

    And He prophesies of The Baptizer, Jesus Christ:


    11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.



    To be Baptized with the Holy Ghost is to receive eternal redemption, to be baptized with fire is to receive eternal judgment. John defines these two baptisms in v.12.

    Now, again, the primary point to take home is that baptism identifies the one baptized with the baptizer, or, in the case of Christ, The Baptizer. We see that John's disciples are identified with John:


    Acts 19
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

    2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.



    These disciples were not yet believing on Jesus Christ, and Paul reminds them what their teacher had said, that they were to believe on Christ (Who would come after him).

    This is not a matter like unto "Stop! in the name of the Law!" It is a matter of identification with the one they are baptized by, and here...they receive the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. It is the moment of their conversion from death unto life.

    They knew there was a Holy Spirit, but The Holy Spirit in view here is the Promised Spirit Christ tells them they will receive not many days hence (Acts 1:4-5). which, He said, they had heard of Him (John 14).

    The Children of Israel were identified with Moses:

    1 Corinthians 10
    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

    2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;



    And Peter is telling men, in answer to a question posed after he has preached the Gospel unto them...


    Acts 2:38
    King James Version (KJV)

    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



    ...to be baptized in association with Jesus Christ, because remission of sins is identified with Jesus Christ, and...

    ...they will receive the Holy Ghost. Or in other words, they will be Baptized with the Holy Ghost, which is synonymous with being Baptized into Christ, because that is what happens at conversion, men are immersed into God.

    What he is not saying is that men will receive remission of sins through a water baptism, any more than men received repentance by being baptized with John. The repentance precedes salvation, and salvation precedes water baptism, even as repentance preceded John's Baptism.

    One more passage to show that it is the Gospel of Christ, and the Gospel of Christ alone that saves, and that it is only the Baptism with the Holy Ghost (whereby we are immersed into God in eternal union) gives eternal life, and, that repentance is granted by God in the Gift of salvation through Christ:


    Acts 11:13-18
    King James Version (KJV)

    13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;

    14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

    15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

    16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

    17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

    18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.



    If you read the account of Cornelius in Acts 10, you will see that Cornelius was saved while Peter yet preached the Gospel. Here we see Peter make it clear Cornelius (and his household) were saved, and received the Promise Spirit...while he yet spake (the words by which they were saved, the Gospel of Jesus Christ). Cornelius was a just man, held in high regard by God, an Old Testament Saint prior to his conversion. He received salvation, which is the Gift of God, and he received repentance unto life.

    That repentance was generated by God through the Gospel, not by Cornelius in response to a demand laid on them by Peter.

    Unfortunately, there are those who wrest the Gospel of Christ and teach another, one which turns the Gospel into a fictitious set of demands one must accomplish in order to be saved.

    So if we take this into consideration, the simple answer to the question of the OP is this: as Trinitarians, when we baptize, we baptize men into association with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Again, it is not so much a matter of authority (though that is true as well), it is a matter of identifying those baptized with God.


    Matthew 28:19
    King James Version (KJV)

    19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



    God bless.
     
  7. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    In AOG/EFC/Baptist churches been membered in, I have never seen or heard water baptism other than in the name of the father/Son/and Spirit though!
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The authority to water baptism is given to us By God, but is not that formula as stated to us by jesus himself?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you advocating here for the Apostolic church position?
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    No, as I said originally, I see the trinitarian aspects of Jesus' name. But sects baptizing this way are in error if they reject the trinity. Jesus Christ is the Name of the triune Father Son and Holy Spirit (YHWH).
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for a very good overview. I believe scripture amply shows that Jesus Christ is the personal name (YHWH) of the Triune Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
     
  12. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You still don't understand. The phrase "In the name of" is not a formula that must be repeated. It is an acknowledgment of authority.

    The believers baptized in Acts were baptized because the disciples had been given the AUTHORITY to baptize. That is what they were saying. "Be baptized by the authority of Jesus." "Be baptized by the authority of the Lord." "Be baptized by the authority of the Triune God." "Be baptized by the authority of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."

    Every one of the verses you quoted above are simply a statement of AUTHORITY.

    Somehow you have gotten mixed up with the damnable heresy of the Modalist Oneness Pentecostals who also don't understand that the phrase "in the name of" is not a baptismal formula but a statement of the disciples authority to baptize.

    So, now I have to ask. When you signed onto the Baptist Board you affirmed you were a Baptist. But are you? Or are you a Oneness Pentecostal?
     
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the post. But I do understand what you are saying. I differ in that Jesus Christ is the personal name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit which is the NT version of YHWH.

    I can say the guy down the street sent me, or I can say Joe sent me who lives down the street.

    When we pray in Jesus' name, we are using God's personal name. We are not praying in the name(s) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. We have no assurance God hears our prayers apart from using Jesus' name.
     
  14. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    I have discussed this verse with many adherents of the so-called "Church of Christ" who believe they most be baptized in order to get the remission of sins. (There favorite hymn seems to be "There is Power in the Tub.")

    I was once asked what the Greek said. I replied that the problem was not that they didn't understand the Greek, but that they didn't understand English.

    "I got a ticket for speeding." Which came first, the ticket or the speeding?

    "I got a medal for bravery." Which came first, the medal or the bravery?

    "My wife got a crown for beauty." Which came first, the crown or the beauty?

    "Baptized for the remission of sins." Which came first, the baptism or the remission of sins?

    In this case the word "for" does not mean "to get." It means "because of."

    One last example. "I went to the store for my wife." Did I go to the store to buy my wife or did I go to the store because of my wife?

    Just a little 4th grade English grammar goes a long way in understanding the bible. :)
     
  15. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    When we pray "in Jesus' name" we are going to the Father by the authority of Christ who commanded us to pray.

    Matt 6:6 But you, when you pray, enter into your inner room, and having shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

    If I don't say "In Jesus' Name" my prayer is still as valid and powerful. It is not a magic formula, an alakazam or a hocus pocus, that magically makes our prayers heard.

    We pray to the Father because Jesus told us to do so. He gave us that AUTHORITY to "come boldly unto the throne of grace."

    As Darrell said, above, the veil of the temple, which kept the Jews from the Mercy Seat, has been torn in half and we now, by the authority of Jesus, have full access to the throne of God.
     
  16. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, great illustration. But I think we must ask why the Apostles and Phillip baptized in Jesus' name and not as they do today in the names(s) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, if that is how they interpreted Jesus.

    The catholics say they changed the Acts model into the model most use today in the 2nd century. (as far as Jesus' name VS the names(s) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I think other histories bear this out as well.
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Since Jesus told us to pray in his name, I have more confidence doing that than if I simply wing it.
     
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I don't think you do as you are still using "In the name of" as some kind of secret formula. (A modern day form of Gnosticism?)

    Who, in this thread, has stated otherwise? I know the guy in the other, now closed, thread failed to understand that YHWH was the OT Name for the Triune God, but so far nobody in this thread has disagreed.

    I showed, in the other thread, by comparing OT verses with NT verses, that Jesus is Jehovah (Yahwah).

    By the way, you erred in changing the word "name" to "name(s)" when referring to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Great Commission reads in
    Mat 28:19 "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

    Name, Greek ονομα, is singular in both Greek and English. The NAME (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. :)
     
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    You are still hung up on some sort of magic formula being used. The Disciples baptized in the Name of Jesus. With the AUTHORITY of Jesus. That is not a contradiction with Matthew 28:19. Jesus said "All AUTHORITY is given unto me in Heaven and on Earth, go you therefore and baptize in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit."

    It is EXACTLY the same thing. EXACTLY the same AUTHORITY. NOTHING has changed.
     
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Yes, pray with His AUTHORITY to come "boldly unto the throne of Grace."

    Not a magic formula, but with His authority.
     
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