Law/Nt/Legalism/Antinomiam thought/kitchen sink...pt3

[JonShaff]

The power of the Holy Spirit will be enough to keep me from knowingly sinning as long as I continue to being infilled by Him, but none of us are able to do that 24/7, as we still have that ole pesky sin nature to deal with!

You are not answering my questions directly. I asked:

do you knowingly willingly set your heart to sin and accomplish it?
Do you believe the Resurrection power of Jesus Christ dwells within you?
Do you believe it is strong enough to keep you from sinning?

 

[1689Dave]

The law does not save us directly.
We are saved by the Lord Jesus Christ who was the perfect law keeper, who kept it at all times on behalf of the elect.

All of the ceremonial and judicial laws were expansions of the ten under Moses.....we do not keep the ceremonial or judicial laws that was for ot.Israel.
We do keep the ten under the Lord Jesus Christ.....as well as the expanded definitions under the new covenant.....

So no....col2 is clear we do not keep ot. Feast days,etc.

Where do you find the civil and ceremonial laws being severed from the moral law? Anywhere in Scripture?

How can we keep the Old Covenant when Christ replaced it with the New?

 

[1689Dave]

You have reached sinless perfection state then?

I wish. But with practice, you can arrest sinful thoughts at the impulse stage before they develop. And if you realize that hatred is the fountainhead of all sin, you can do a bulk sweep arresting it every time it bears its ugly head.

 

[Yeshua1]

Where do you find the civil and ceremonial laws being severed from the moral law? Anywhere in Scripture?

How can we keep the Old Covenant when Christ replaced it with the New?

The Old Covenant was not the law, but the relationship between God and the people under the Covenant between Him and Israel...

 

[Yeshua1]

I wish. But with practice, you can arrest sinful thoughts at the impulse stage before they develop. And if you realize that hatred is the fountainhead of all sin, you can do a bulk sweep arresting it every time it bears its ugly head.

Do you think that you are sinning with even being aware of doing it though?

 

[1689Dave]

The Old Covenant was not the law, but the relationship between God and the people under the Covenant between Him and Israel...

 

[1689Dave]

Notice the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant.

“And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” (Exodus 34:28) (KJV 1900)

“And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.” (Deuteronomy 4:13) (KJV 1900)

“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water:” (Deuteronomy 9:9) (KJV 1900)

“So I turned and came down from the mount, and the mount burned with fire: and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” (Deuteronomy 9:15) (KJV 1900)

“And in it have I put the ark, wherein is the covenant of the Lord, that he made with the children of Israel.” (2 Chronicles 6:11) (KJV 1900)

“And they departed from the mount of the Lord three days’ journey: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord went before them in the three days’ journey, to search out a resting place for them.” (Numbers 10:33) (KJV 1900)

“And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.” (Jeremiah 3:16) (KJV 1900)

 

[Yeshua1]

Notice the Ten Commandments were the Old Covenant.

“And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.” (Exodus 34:28) (KJV 1900)

“And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.” (Deuteronomy 4:13) (KJV 1900)

“When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the Lord made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water:” (Deuteronomy 9:9) (KJV 1900)

“So I turned and came down from the mount, and the mount burned with fire: and the two tables of the covenant were in my two hands.” (Deuteronomy 9:15) (KJV 1900)

“And in it have I put the ark, wherein is the covenant of the Lord, that he made with the children of Israel.” (2 Chronicles 6:11) (KJV 1900)

“And they departed from the mount of the Lord three days’ journey: and the ark of the covenant of the Lord went before them in the three days’ journey, to search out a resting place for them.” (Numbers 10:33) (KJV 1900)

“And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the Lord: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.” (Jeremiah 3:16) (KJV 1900)

The Old testament Covenant was still under Grace, not Law for salvation though!

 

[1689Dave]

The Old testament Covenant was still under Grace, not Law for salvation though!

The Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments and they saved no one. All salvation from Abel till the end of the world is Grace, apart from the Law.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Old Covenant was the Ten Commandments and they saved no one. All salvation from Abel till the end of the world is Grace, apart from the Law.

Since we agree the law saved none, and that God still saved by grace even in the OT, why would we no longer see the law as the moral standard of God to aspire to for behavior?

 

[JonShaff]

why would we no longer see the law as the moral standard of God to aspire to for behavior?

Aspire? Because Christ said, "Love your enemies, Bless them that Curse you, and Pray for them that spitefully use you." The Ten Commands do not cover that. We are the "Light and Salt"--being "Morally Good" is not what God expects of His Children--Loving Perfectly Is His Expectation. "Be Perfect because your Father in Heaven is Perfect." Christ lives within us by the Spirit of the Living God. We are Called to be GODLY--not moral. Yes there is a a difference.

 

[Yeshua1]

Aspire? Because Christ said, "Love your enemies, Bless them that Curse you, and Pray for them that spitefully use you." The Ten Commands do not cover that. We are the "Light and Salt"--being "Morally Good" is not what God expects of His Children--Loving Perfectly Is His Expectation. "Be Perfect because your Father in Heaven is Perfect." Christ lives within us by the Spirit of the Living God. We are Called to be GODLY--not moral. Yes there is a a difference.

the law was is and is perfect, the main problem was that we did not have the means to live as we ought, but now with our new natures and the Holy Spirit in us, we can aspire to living the moral life the Law points us to be doing!

 

[JonShaff]

the law was is and is perfect, the main problem was that we did not have the means to live as we ought, but now with our new natures and the Holy Spirit in us, we can aspire to living the moral life the Law points us to be doing!

Did you read my post? Can you please address what you agree or do not agree with in it? Thanks!

 

[JonShaff]

the law was is and is perfect,

Help me understand Hebrews 8
6 Now, however, Jesus has received a far superior ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is superior and is founded on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second.

Or Hebrews 7
18So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Or Hebrews 10
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

Christ is our Hope and Means to righteousness...both Practical and Positional.

And before anyone falsely accuses me of anything--i'm simply asking for an understanding of the above passages--i have not made any claims.

 

[Yeshua1]

Help me understand Hebrews 8
6 Now, however, Jesus has received a far superior ministry, just as the covenant He mediates is superior and is founded on better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second.

Or Hebrews 7
18So the former commandment is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the Law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

Or Hebrews 10
1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

Christ is our Hope and Means to righteousness...both Practical and Positional.

And before anyone falsely accuses me of anything--i'm simply asking for an understanding of the above passages--i have not made any claims.

We all would agree that the New Covenant is far superior to the old One, but there is still a moral standard given to us.

 

[JonShaff]

We all would agree that the New Covenant is far superior to the old One, but there is still a moral standard given to us.

Ok, let's stop dealing with abstracts--what are some of these moral standards and let's discuss them--strictly from the OT.

 

[1689Dave]

Since we agree the law saved none, and that God still saved by grace even in the OT, why would we no longer see the law as the moral standard of God to aspire to for behavior?

It was primarily for wicked unbelievers who made up the visible institutional church state. God removed the Church State and the unbelievers, leaving only the believers. Per Romans 11.

 

[Yeshua1]

It was primarily for wicked unbelievers who made up the visible institutional church state. God removed the Church State and the unbelievers, leaving only the believers. Per Romans 11.

The church has it both saved and lost, correct? Wheat and tares?

 

[1689Dave]

The church has it both saved and lost, correct? Wheat and tares?

The body of Christ (Church) is believers only. The Visible Institutional Churches were not part of the NT. They emerged as church government became corrupted under the monarchial Bishops in the 2nd century.

 

[JonShaff]

The church has it both saved and lost, correct? Wheat and tares?

Christ's Body--His Church--has only Believers. Here in America, unbelievers and believers meet in buildings on Sundays and Wednesdays (Usually)--some call that the church.