Christians pay honor and respect ot our Lord jesus, and many to the holy Spirit, but do we really pay homage to God the Father? He was the One both Jesus and Paul acknowledge as the God of Jesus Christ and of us, but how many times is He preached/talked about in Church/daily life as compared to that for Jesus and the Holy Spirit?
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Do Christians Disrespect God the Father in our Churches?
- Thread starter Yeshua1
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The Son is the One who saved us. It is He that was given a name above all names. He is the Head of the church, and the One will return and gather us and present us holy and blameless before the Father.
Jesus is the One who is preached.
He is before all things. To pay honor and respect to Jesus IS to pay honor and respect to the Father.
Jesus is the One who is preached.
He is before all things. To pay honor and respect to Jesus IS to pay honor and respect to the Father.
Just strange that the Father was the One that Jesus always acknowledged as being over Him, so why should not honor Him then?
Your experience may not be typical. In all of the churches I have attended or been a member of, the Father gets most of the attention. Jesus is referenced as the Savior, but rarely the object of worship or prayer. That may be due to a reaction against Roman Catholicism.
Even the classic hymns (songs before the last quarter century of praise music) in the Baptist Hymnal (SBC) have only one hymn of worship addressed to Jesus (Fairest Lord Jesus). What you are experiencing may be an over-correction toward the Son, Jesus.
If we are Trinitarian in our theology, then we know we can direct pray and worship to the Father, Son and Spirit without offending God. In fact, I think it is pleasing to God for us to recognize the fullness of His Persons.
I teach my people to pray to the Father, in the name of the Son, and filled with the Spirit. The Father is the God head, the finished work of the cross by the Son is the reason we have the privilege to come before the Father, and we are to pray in submission to the word of God and the Spirit leading.
I agree that in prayer we recognize Him, but in the churches that I attended that were Pentacostal, the Spirit can the main coverage, and even in Baptist churches most of the actual preaching and teaching revolves around Jesus.
Are you saying that the Son and the Spirit are in submission to the Father, or that a prayer to the Father is prayer to the Son and Spirit as well?
Saying that God the father as the First Person of the trinity should be acknowledged and honored as being such!
The only 2 times that I know about Trinity submission was jesus while here upon the Earth in His Human "normal" Body, and at end of the Age , when he turns over all things to His Father, and God is all in all then!
Jesus has always pointed us to the Father, and the HS has always pointed us to the Son.
I think part of the problem is that many Christians do not understand the God-head, the idea of Trinity, or the characteristics and roles of the three persons of the Godhead. I certainly did not before going to seminary for a degree to be a worker at para-church ministries. Despite having gone to a Southern Baptist church for several years. I think I was and am like most people at church. I didn't understand any of the theology behind what is considered common knowledge by anyone who has a seminary or seminary-esque education.
I mean even many people at a "moderate" (i.e. liberal) evangelical seminary I went to were arguing about whether Jesus was YHVH and the Father someone new entirely revealed by Jesus. This faction was even led by a professor. Which is nuts given a literal reading, but I think the problem here Yeshua is a lack of theological and Church History education in the churches.
Pastors and teachers can help this, but they have to be very conscious of their teaching on the Godhead to do so, in order to communicate what is accurate. I wonder if most pastors have thought their communication of the Godhead through like Revmitchell.
My two cents is that basic seminary knowledge has to be repackaged into something more accessible and then taught to the laity to lay the groundwork to addressing problems of theology in the churches.
I mean even many people at a "moderate" (i.e. liberal) evangelical seminary I went to were arguing about whether Jesus was YHVH and the Father someone new entirely revealed by Jesus. This faction was even led by a professor. Which is nuts given a literal reading, but I think the problem here Yeshua is a lack of theological and Church History education in the churches.
Pastors and teachers can help this, but they have to be very conscious of their teaching on the Godhead to do so, in order to communicate what is accurate. I wonder if most pastors have thought their communication of the Godhead through like Revmitchell.
My two cents is that basic seminary knowledge has to be repackaged into something more accessible and then taught to the laity to lay the groundwork to addressing problems of theology in the churches.
Amen!!
The Father and the Son are distinct persons, but
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
How we honor the Father:
John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
How we honor the Father:
John 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the personal name of the Triune God. So if we understand this, the rest takes care of itself. But if we try to view the trinity apart from the oneness of God, we end up thinking in terms of three.
The name for God is Yahweh, and jesus is not all 3 of them is he? He ist he Second Person of the Trinity, but there is also the Holy Spirit!
Your wording here sounds like either Modualism. or else Oneness doctrine!
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5) (NET)
You do know that Jesus was the Angel of the lord in the OT, but that he also had God the father in Heaven , right?
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
God is the eternal trinity. But his personal name YHWH = Jesus.
Nope,as jesus was JUST the name given to God the Son, and God told Himself told Moses his name was Yahweh.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
If Jesus is Lord, he is YHWH.
We all know that, for some strange reason, you avoid using the scriptures to lend support to your off-the-cuff opinion, but in this case you are so wrong I just can't let it go, as I usually do.
JESUS IS JEHOVAH (Yahwah).
Isa 40:3 The voice of one who calls out, “Prepare the way of Yahweh in the wilderness! Make a level highway in the desert for our God.
Now compare that to:
Mat 3:3 For this is he who was spoken of by Isaiah the prophet, saying, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness, make ready the way of the Lord. Make his paths straight.”
John was preaching Jesus, the Old Testament Yahwah according to Isaiah 40:3.
Again:
Num 21:5 The people spoke against God, and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no bread, and there is no water; and our soul loathes this disgusting bread.”
6 Yahweh sent venomous snakes among the people, and they bit the people. Many people of Israel died.
Compare to:
1Cor 10:9 Let’s not test Christ, as some of them tested, and perished by the serpents.
And, again:
Gen 2:4 This is the history of the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that Yahweh God made the earth and the heavens.
John 1:3 All things were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.
There it is, three times. The Old Testament says Yahwah did it, the New Testament says Jesus did it.
The only logical conclusion is to see that Jesus is Yahwah and Yahwah is Jesus.
QED
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