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1 Timothy 2:12 should a woman teach a man
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Again, I have to wonder how quoting me is helpful if you don't make any comments.
I note people are dodging my authentein/ exousia question
Put the question again, Matthew.
Bro. James
Bro. James
Ask and ye shall receive!
Matt Black said:
Not being a linguistics scholar, nuances do not hold a lot of significance for me. I let scripture interpret scripture, which they will do if left unforced through a worldly paradigm. The scholars say authenein is used once, exousia many times.
Jesus used exousia when referring to the authority which was given to Him, which He vested in His Church, not just Peter or the Apostles. Mt. Ch.16, cf end of Ch. 28.
The Pauline/Bible teaching of women not being over men, is taught is several places. This is also implied in teaching of the husband is the head of the wife.
This does not mean there is any sort of inequality. Women cannot beget children either, nor can men conceive. Both sexes have a specific design, plan and purpose in this world. Subjection does not mean subservient. It matters not what NOW may teach.
The woman is still the Queen, sitting next to the King who makes the final decision--it is his responsibility. He cannot delegate this responsibility--woe unto him if he shirks it by abdicating.
Selah,
Bro. James
P.S. How come there has been no King in England lately?
Jesus used exousia when referring to the authority which was given to Him, which He vested in His Church, not just Peter or the Apostles. Mt. Ch.16, cf end of Ch. 28.
The Pauline/Bible teaching of women not being over men, is taught is several places. This is also implied in teaching of the husband is the head of the wife.
This does not mean there is any sort of inequality. Women cannot beget children either, nor can men conceive. Both sexes have a specific design, plan and purpose in this world. Subjection does not mean subservient. It matters not what NOW may teach.
The woman is still the Queen, sitting next to the King who makes the final decision--it is his responsibility. He cannot delegate this responsibility--woe unto him if he shirks it by abdicating.
Selah,
Bro. James
P.S. How come there has been no King in England lately?
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soninme said:
Very true ... but a particular interpretation may not mean what the scripture really means.
:smilewinkgrin:
Correct, but what does the former mean?Bro. James said:
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Women should not exercise authority over men. This does not preclude them serving in other capacities: teaching women and children.
For certain, women have had to stand in the gap--especially when the men have shirked their responsibilities.
There is not a lot of support in the OT nor the NT for the women being over the men. Their control is more behind the scenes. Sarah disobeyed God by giving her servant Hagar to Abraham. Abraham sinned by following her suggestion. The consequences of that are still being played out on the world stage.
See Proverbs 31:10-31.
Selah,
Bro. James
For certain, women have had to stand in the gap--especially when the men have shirked their responsibilities.
There is not a lot of support in the OT nor the NT for the women being over the men. Their control is more behind the scenes. Sarah disobeyed God by giving her servant Hagar to Abraham. Abraham sinned by following her suggestion. The consequences of that are still being played out on the world stage.
See Proverbs 31:10-31.
Selah,
Bro. James
Still no-one tackling authentein, then?
A word used once is difficult to impossible to fully understand, since it cannot be compared to use in other scriptural contexts. What ever it means it must be harmonized with other teachings in the Word of God. God is not the author of confusion. He said what He meant, meant what He said.
It behooves us to find the harmony.
Have you read the article: Ancient Heresies and a Strange Greek Verb? Kathy Kroeger did a lot of digging.
See: godswordtowomen.org
My take: the word is always negative and the implication goes back to the garden of Eden. What about the vestal virgins?
Selah,
Bro. James
It behooves us to find the harmony.
Have you read the article: Ancient Heresies and a Strange Greek Verb? Kathy Kroeger did a lot of digging.
See: godswordtowomen.org
My take: the word is always negative and the implication goes back to the garden of Eden. What about the vestal virgins?
Selah,
Bro. James
There's not really much to tackle here. It is pretty easy, and Grudem (I think it was him) answered this issue conclusively. There is no indication that the word is used negatively, and no reason why it should be interpreted as such.
What do you mean by 'negatively'? I'm asking people to define the word, not say whether it is 'positive' or 'negative'. Can no-one do that?
How about the Greek equivalent of: hen-pecked?
Methinks this discussion is mired in the pit of uncertain, isolated, Koine Greek/ Middle English idiom. Interestingly, the modern translations are kind of the same as the KJV.
The husband is still the head of the wife. What that may mean is still debated--usually by those who will not submit.
Sarah had trouble with circumcision too. God left no options.
The fact that we are the clay and God is the potter usually causes great consternation for those who do not submit to His will.
God--why did you make us thusly and suchly?
Selah,
Bro. James
Methinks this discussion is mired in the pit of uncertain, isolated, Koine Greek/ Middle English idiom. Interestingly, the modern translations are kind of the same as the KJV.
The husband is still the head of the wife. What that may mean is still debated--usually by those who will not submit.
Sarah had trouble with circumcision too. God left no options.
The fact that we are the clay and God is the potter usually causes great consternation for those who do not submit to His will.
God--why did you make us thusly and suchly?
Selah,
Bro. James
Noah Hirsch
Active Member
Hi Noah,
Head on up to the New Members Welcome Forum and say "hello".
This thread is an old one and very likely will be labeled a "Zombie thread" and eliminated.
Start a new thread on the topic!
Rob
Should teach other women and kids.
It is a zombie. And I'm closing it.
Hi Noah,
Head on up to the New Members Welcome Forum and say "hello".
This thread is an old one and very likely will be labeled a "Zombie thread" and eliminated.
Start a new thread on the topic!
Rob
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