Featured Calvinism and the warning passages

Original Post
Spurgeon then goes on to respond to the objection that the warnings are unnecessary if believers can’t fall away. He argues that the warnings are a means by which believers are preserved until the end.

My Comment
If they so choose to be.

Original Post
But,’ says one, ‘You say they cannot fall away.’ What is the use of putting this ‘if’ in, like a bugbear to frighten children, or like a ghost that can have no existence? My learned friend, ‘Who art thou that repliest against God?’ If God has put it in, he has put it in for wise reasons and for excellent purposes. Let me show you why. First, O Christian, it is put in to keep thee from falling away.

My Comment
I guess I could say to Spurgeon who are you to reply against God with all the many scriptures which warn that believers, or saved CAN fall away. IF you remain in me Jesus said. John 15:7

Original Post
God preserves his children from falling away; but he keeps them by the use of means; and one of these is, the terrors of the law, showing them what would happen if they were to fall away.

I'd say rather God seeks to preserve his children from falling away but it's entirely up to them.

Original Post
There is a deep precipice: what is the best way to keep any one from going down there? Why, to tell him that if he did he would inevitably be dashed to pieces. In some old castle there is a deep cellar, where there is a vast amount of fixed air and gas, which would kill anybody who went down. What does the guide say? ‘If you go down you will never come up alive.’ Who thinks of going down? The very fact of the guide telling us what the consequences would be, keeps us from it.

My Comment
Sorry. I do have an appreciation of Spurgeon in some things....not so with any of this. A great problem with his construct would be this. Any one who does greatly sin let's say to the point of falling away he'd therefore conclude they weren't saved to begin with. Quite problematic for if such a sinner wanted to come back and repent they're now laden down with the sorrow I call it deception that they probably weren't saved to begin with. And don't you Calvinists agree that you periodically sin? Whatever sin you've committed as a Calvinist Christian then how come the warnings didn't keep you out of it? The answer is clear. Yes God does use warnings to motivate Christians to stay within the perimeters of his will. But it's about motivating and exhorting them not freezing them or locking them up with some type of irresistible grace. So question to Calvinists....do you EVER sin? Why didn't the warnings work to stop you.

 

And why don't the warnings always work to keep Calvinists out of sin? Are you saying Calvinists ALWAYS take heed and listen and obey the warnings and instructions of Jesus when he said take heed what you hear? It would seem like you are. Surely you don't really believe that. You must conclude you have the choice...yes or no and that it's not automatic.

 

Getting saved would be the will of God towards us, and once saved, we need to make sure to make right decisions!

 

2Co 1:21-22 KJV Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;
Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Eph 1:13 KJV In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 4:30 KJV And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I thank God that when I was born-again, the Holy Spirit began a new work in me, causing me to desire to please God by my actions, words and deeds. His work is not completed in me.

However, due to God's continuing grace and His perfect plan, I am sealed by the Holy Spirit as a child in the family of God.

 

So what you're claiming is getting saved is automatic and all Jesus warnings in that regard well...they just automatically work.....but not his warnings of living a holy life after that? Why wouldn't God be concerned about your making all right decisions if it is as Calvinists say?

 

Well Iconoclast what you post was largely the thoughts of Spurgeon who somehow claims the warning of Jesus were meant for the elect and it seems not for the whole human race. He seems of the opinion Jesus warnings create an absolute guarantee Christians will be thrust into an obedience to God with such guaranteed. I contend that doesn't add up. If "warnings" accomplished such Calvinists wouldn't sin at no place and no time even after conversion.

It seeks to build a case that real Christians would still need warnings but those warnings guarantee obedience without question. Again...why doesn't Jesus warnings ALWAYS keep the Calvinist from sinning? Is not the question fair?

 

Nor in me my friend!

Well if you hold to once saved always saved then you consider that sealing is something guaranteed, locked up and settled forever regardless of one's actions. I'd contend it's rather a guarantee of one's present Salvation as they choose to remain in Christ and continue in the faith. There are some who view Salvation as an act of faith which it must start out as such but it also must become a life of faith or it's all of no avail.

 

Well your claim that my understanding is defective is merely your own Calvinistic, OSAS assertion. I contend once again individuals need to choose to remain In Christ and continue in the faith and hold those conditions were a part of the covenant. It was actually always a part of the Old Covenant as well. If Israel remained in the will of God they'd be blessed. If they didn't they came under the curse as in the curse of the law. In the New Covenant it is Christ which lives out his holy life through us BUT we have to yield to him in so doing each step of the way.

 

I stated that the part of salvation is based upon the Will of God and not will of sinners, but once saved, we need to obey His instructions in the Bible in how we now ought to live.

 

Eph 1:14 KJV Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (There is no "return" policy with God's purchases.)

Eph 4:30 KJV And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Time period specified.)

1Co 6:11 KJV And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. (His doings, not mine.)

Rev 1:5 KJV 5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, (ditto)

Heb 12:8 KJV But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

The born-again child of God has been washed by the blood of Jesus Christ to remove all sin and is viewed by God the Father as a Saint - today and evermore. In this life, children of God are not Saints and never will be. However, we desire to be.

When the Holy Spirit is grieved to the point of action, Christians are chastised by Him. I have had that experience more than once.

Thank God, my Father, he cares for me in spite of my sins which are washed away.

 

The new Covenant is unconditional, as God Himself fully justifies and keeps all those now saved into Christ jesus!
Paul stated that wea re now adopted by God, as are the children of God, and that those whom God sealed with His Holy Spirit are forever his own!
The one who really clarifies this is the Lord jesus, as ALL whom the father gave to him to get saved will be saved and raised up to glorification, period!

 

I don't question at all that we are bought with a price...the precious blood of Jesus. 1 Peter 1:19 I don't question at all that we are made Sons of God. Sons as in the prodigal son story however can willfully choose to leave the Father's house and sadly be lost. Luke 15

Doesn't demonstrate with any proof whatsoever that it's a locked in guarantee of Salvation regardless of your future actions. One must remain in me Jesus said. That means they could leave. John 15:4

Part true part not. Sanctification is an on going thing and God has a part to play in it BUT so also does man. Man's part? We are to cleanse ourselves by choosing to fill the word of God into our lives.

In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work. 2 Timothy 2:21

It's the word which does the sanctifying John 17:17 but in that we choose to renew our minds with it, so yes that's something WE DO...we have God doing something...but also us.It's really us cooperating with God each step of the way but it does require our will in agreement.

And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Romans 12:2

WE, renew our minds by choosing to mediate on his word and putting it into practice. Yes God works in us both to will and to do his good pleasure but is it a forced thing? No. If so no Calvinist would be with sin AND the Holy Spirit would never be grieved.

 

And with respect I'd suggest you're in error. Jesus clearly stated If we remain in him...John 15:7 Is not IF conditional?

 

Except John 15:7 is not about salvation:

[John 15:7 NIV]

7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.​

From the surrounding context ...

[J0hn 15:1-9 NIV]

1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples. 9 "As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.​

... our 'remaining in Jesus' is based on the actions of the "gardener" (God the Father) and not the decisions of the "branch" (us). [Fruit comes from the Holy Spirit, and surely no one can argue that WE control the HOLY SPIRIT rather than the HOLY SPIRIT guides US.]