How much of a "sinner" are we really?

[Rhetorician]

Hello to all:

I suppose this will bring out the real "Arminian" in those who are and I suppose this will bring out the real "Particular Redemptionist" in those who are?!

I propose that "Arminians" believe that they commit sins.

I propose that "Particular Redemptionsists" would say that they are sin.

The old "I commit sins therefore that makes me a sinner" vs "I am a sinner (or I am sin) therefore I sin out of my nature" type argument.

This will show your theological presuppositions indeed.

Come out come out wherever you are! You know who you are but this could help some to clarify their own thought. Hopefully?

What say ye?

sdg!

rd

 

[kyredneck]

Old-Line Primitive Baptist Hymn and Tune Book: Hymn #212: I Am A Stranger Here Below

(listen)

I am a stranger here below,
And what I am 'tis hard to know,
I am so vile, so prone to sin,
I fear that I'm not born again.

When I experience call to mind,
My understanding is so blind,
All feeling sense seems to be gone,
Which makes me fear that I am wrong.

I find myself out of the way;
My thoughts are often gone astray;
Like one alone I seem to be;
Oh! is there any one like me?

So far from God I seem to lie,
Which makes me often weep and cry;
I fear at last that I shall fall,
For if a saint, the least of all.

I seldom find a heart to pray,
So many things step in my way;
Thus filled with doubts, I ask to know;
Come, tell me, is it thus with you?

So, by experience, I do know
There's nothing good that I can do;
I can not satisfy the law,
Nor hope nor comfort from it draw.

My nature is so prone to sin,
Which makes my duty so unclean,
That when I count up all the cost,
If not free grace, then I am lost.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I guess I have to find a Reformed Church because I believe in total depravity

 

[Rhetorician]

I guess I have to find a Reformed Church because I believe in total depravity

EWF,

Is this a confession? Did the post push you over the edge? Or are you "joshing me?!"

Please advise when possible.

sdg!

rd

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

EWF,

Is this a confession? Did the post push you over the edge? Or are you "joshing me?!"

Please advise when possible.

sdg!

rd

No I’m serious...I live in a post Christian community and it’s getting worse. The church I belong to just got a new pastor and the guy doesn’t want to rock the boat. He is just now teaching people age bracket 60’s plus very basic stuff... like trinity.

 

[TCassidy]

I have a dog. He barks. Does his barking make him a dog, or does he bark because he is a dog?

I am a sinner. I sin. Does my sinning make me a sinner or do I sin because I am a sinner?

Seems pretty obvious to me.

 

[1689Dave]

Hello to all:

I suppose this will bring out the real "Arminian" in those who are and I suppose this will bring out the real "Particular Redemptionist" in those who are?!

I propose that "Arminians" believe that they commit sins.

I propose that "Particular Redemptionsists" would say that they are sin.

The old "I commit sins therefore that makes me a sinner" vs "I am a sinner (or I am sin) therefore I sin out of my nature" type argument.

This will show your theological presuppositions indeed.

Come out come out wherever you are! You know who you are but this could help some to clarify their own thought. Hopefully?

What say ye?

sdg!

rd

My understanding is that we are body, soul, and spirit. Born spiritually dead, the soul (flesh or mind) follows the body's cravings and worldly wants. Jesus raised us from the dead spiritually and our spirit took on an identity separate from the flesh. And a struggle between spirit and flesh developed and remains the normal experience for all believers. God also baptizes our spirit into the Holy Spirit where we experience more or less of his presence depending on our obedience.

In the early stages the Ten Commandments become our moral guide as we learn through them to identify sin. And later, as we learn to walk in the Spirit, the love of God and people becomes our motive for obedience and we naturally live in harmony with the Commandments using them to identify and correct our impure thoughts.

Eventually, outward sin becomes the exception. But sins of the thought realm (the flesh) continue to harass us. And if we give in, we lose our happiness and peace of mind. So we treat them as we treat poison. Doing as Paul says, “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:5)

So where outward sin is the exception, sins of the mind or flesh enlist us in spiritual warfare continuously. But just as we change the channel on offensive broadcasts or TV, we censor our impure thoughts replacing them with godly thoughts.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My understanding is that we are body, soul, and spirit. Born spiritually dead, the soul (flesh or mind) follows the body's cravings and worldly wants. Jesus raised us from the dead spiritually and our spirit took on an identity separate from the flesh. And a struggle between spirit and flesh developed and remains the normal experience for all believers. God also baptizes our spirit into the Holy Spirit where we experience more or less of his presence depending on our obedience.

In the early stages the Ten Commandments become our moral guide as we learn through them to identify sin. And later, as we learn to walk in the Spirit, the love of God and people becomes our motive for obedience and we naturally live in harmony with the Commandments using them to identify and correct our impure thoughts.

Eventually, outward sin becomes the exception. But sins of the thought realm (the flesh) continue to harass us. And if we give in, we lose our happiness and peace of mind. So we treat them as we treat poison. Doing as Paul says, “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:5)

So where outward sin is the exception, sins of the mind or flesh enlist us in spiritual warfare continuously. But just as we change the channel on offensive broadcasts or TV, we censor our impure thoughts replacing them with godly thoughts.

So we are not supposed to like sin? I know I know....as the story goes, we get saved and we build up an aversion to it. As for me, only somewhat. see I like to sin....I prefer it for what it is, "REALITY" & everything else is confusion, hypocrisy & delusion. Just look at this nonsense going on right now with immigration. We all know what trump & his merry band of conspirators were attempting to do, only it blew up in their faces. I don't fault them for trying to pull off something, what I fault them for is not planning better & then [Edit: crude language removed] it up. Now they look shabby. But trump knows his trumpster base will forgive him anything, so for now they will cover him. Circle the [Edit: crude language removed] wagons boys & girls, LOL.

Now here is the thing, do you consider this whole cabal a sinful operation? Some would say Oh Yea then others will work to cover it up ... [Edit: crude language removed] ! You don't have to answer, just do some deep thinking on it for awhile.

Tell you the truth, all this is really enjoyable to a guy like me, I know there is a ton of money behind it, as with every one of these ....ahhh, political endeavors and then there is where scripture remarks, "money is the answer to all things," so I should let that be the answer to my [Edit: profane language removed] Calvinistic conscience. This guy trump has no scruples, the evangelicals applaud all his actions, indeed provide cover for him....so why should I ....and these trump observations have taught me some valuable lessons...win at any cost and if scruples are getting in the way they are to be strangled and denounced openly & publicly mourned. Thank you Donald Trump !

 

[Wingman68]

Looks like a divisive thread where there are no correct answers, only feelings. I’ll pass, but would ditto kyredneck’s post.

 

[Yeshua1]

Hello to all:

I suppose this will bring out the real "Arminian" in those who are and I suppose this will bring out the real "Particular Redemptionist" in those who are?!

I propose that "Arminians" believe that they commit sins.

I propose that "Particular Redemptionsists" would say that they are sin.

The old "I commit sins therefore that makes me a sinner" vs "I am a sinner (or I am sin) therefore I sin out of my nature" type argument.

This will show your theological presuppositions indeed.

Come out come out wherever you are! You know who you are but this could help some to clarify their own thought. Hopefully?

What say ye?

sdg!

rd

I am a sinner by birth/nature, and by choice, and God had me already condemned as a guilty sinner due to me being born into Adam!

 

[tyndale1946]

Old-Line Primitive Baptist Hymn and Tune Book: Hymn #212: I Am A Stranger Here Below

(listen)

I am a stranger here below,
And what I am 'tis hard to know,
I am so vile, so prone to sin,
I fear that I'm not born again.

When I experience call to mind,
My understanding is so blind,
All feeling sense seems to be gone,
Which makes me fear that I am wrong.

I find myself out of the way;
My thoughts are often gone astray;
Like one alone I seem to be;
Oh! is there any one like me?

So far from God I seem to lie,
Which makes me often weep and cry;
I fear at last that I shall fall,
For if a saint, the least of all.

I seldom find a heart to pray,
So many things step in my way;
Thus filled with doubts, I ask to know;
Come, tell me, is it thus with you?

So, by experience, I do know
There's nothing good that I can do;
I can not satisfy the law,
Nor hope nor comfort from it draw.

My nature is so prone to sin,
Which makes my duty so unclean,
That when I count up all the cost,
If not free grace, then I am lost.

Great posts TC and Kentucky... I don't think the Apostle Paul had trouble understanding that concept... And like Paul I name it and claim it!... And like Paul also I learned the remedy for it... The following hymn is one of my favorites that I led in church... Sorry no music... Brother Glen

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

1 Jesus, Thou art the sinner's Friend;
As such I look to Thee;
Now, in the fulness of Thy love,
O Lord, remember me.

2 Remember Thy pure word of grace,
Remember Calvary's tree,
Remember all Thy dying groans,
And then remember me.

3 Thou wondrous Advocate with God,
I yield my soul to Thee;
While Thou art pleading on the throne,
Dear Lord, remember me.

4 Lord, I am guilty, I am vile,
But Thy salvation's free;
Then, in Thine all-abounding grace,
Dear Lord, remember me.

5 Howe'er forsaken or despised,
Howe'er oppressed I be,
Howe'er forgotten here on earth,
Do Thou remember me.

6 And when I close my eyes in death,
And human help shall flee,
Then, then, my dear redeeming God,
O then remember me.

 

[1689Dave]

So we are not supposed to like sin?

I hate sin and do everything I can to avoid it. Not only in my thoughts but actions too. It cheats me out of the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Great news, 1.put the noose around those Lordship Salvation guys (2.) push the button (3.) drop the trap door

Big smile

Bye bye

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I hate sin and do everything I can to avoid it. Not only in my thoughts but actions too. It cheats me out of the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

Ya hate sin.... don’t tell me, let me guess... you dine on soy, milk & honey.

 

[kyredneck]

I don't think the Apostle Paul had trouble understanding that concept

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Ro 7

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My understanding is that we are body, soul, and spirit. Born spiritually dead, the soul (flesh or mind) follows the body's cravings and worldly wants. Jesus raised us from the dead spiritually and our spirit took on an identity separate from the flesh. And a struggle between spirit and flesh developed and remains the normal experience for all believers. God also baptizes our spirit into the Holy Spirit where we experience more or less of his presence depending on our obedience.

In the early stages the Ten Commandments become our moral guide as we learn through them to identify sin. And later, as we learn to walk in the Spirit, the love of God and people becomes our motive for obedience and we naturally live in harmony with the Commandments using them to identify and correct our impure thoughts.

Eventually, outward sin becomes the exception. But sins of the thought realm (the flesh) continue to harass us. And if we give in, we lose our happiness and peace of mind. So we treat them as we treat poison. Doing as Paul says, “Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;” (2 Corinthians 10:5)

So where outward sin is the exception, sins of the mind or flesh enlist us in spiritual warfare continuously. But just as we change the channel on offensive broadcasts or TV, we censor our impure thoughts replacing them with godly thoughts.

I’m going to call you Mr. Godly Thoughts and you can call me Mr Scummy . Tell you what, come with me to Manhattan one day... even better more in summer. We got some darn pretty women... and not wearing allot of clothes. Let’s see how you do

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. Ro 7

I don’t wring my hands though

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

BTW Larry, did you put in a garden yet. Mine got put in late. Mostly tomatoes and broccoli. No produce yet, needs another few weeks.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I hate sin and do everything I can to avoid it. Not only in my thoughts but actions too. It cheats me out of the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 7:18-25.

 

[1689Dave]

Romans 7:18-25.

Paul speaking as a Jew before conversion?