New Covenant

That's not both, that is saying it always existed which then you must have misspoke when you said it began at Pentecost.

Now here is the problem with this thinking:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3)

Prior to the resurrection, all dying in faith went to Paradise. After the resurrection, Jesus led "captivity captive" and took the OT saints into heaven. "Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them." (Psalm 68:18) Take special note of the last statement "that the LORD might dwell among them" and compare to......
"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:" (Heb 8) Of course this prophecy is ALL New Covenant and was fulfilled through the death, burial, resurrection and glorification of Jesus Christ and began only after those events had been fulfilled. Christ was never "In" the believer until the New Covenant, He couldn't be until sin was washed by the blood and removed. God cannot dwell with sin. Only then was a person fit for Christ to enter into them as one and the person was fit to enter into heaven.

 

No I think you did not make yourself clear from the beginning. I suppose you could argue the Kingdom of Heaven is eternal, but of course it had no human occupants until Jesus Christ paved the way. So we can say it began post cross, which you said so yourself, as far as people entering in. I understand clearly from the scripture why it began (to be filled) beginning with the OT saints brought out of Paradise and the NT disciples followed by Pentecost. I have presented plenty of scripture which of course no one has challenged.

 

I think we both are thinking "began" as in the sense after Jesus Christ was glorified things changed with regards to the Kingdom. We both understand the Kingdom is eternal, but we both were speaking in terms of what is happening within the Kingdom in the New Covenant. So we both began with a lack of clarity. But I think we are on the same page now, but you believe the Kingdom was open for business since the beginning of time and I see scripture showing it was closed until Jesus Christ was glorified and established the New Covenant. Now you do have a sense that it "began" at Pentecost, you said as much, thus, you do recognize there is a change. So what is the change for the believer that you see in scripture, I showed you the change I see through scripture, that the OT saints were held in paradise and no one entered into the Kingdom until Christ was glorified.

 

That's fine brother, but this is a debate board and you will have to answer questions and be specific. I provided a lot of scripture backing up my views and haven't seen you address as to why I am misapplying what I am concluding. Making vague statements doesn't help the debate.

 

Sure we can. Post the scripture that has shaped your views that the Kingdom is being wherever God is. And then we will debate. Oh, and you can go back and read my post to you with all of the scripture I gave and show me why I am wrong on my views.

 

Very good! You would agree then that the OT saints were not born again, or in other words as you said, sealed of the Holy Spirit.

 

Then when you listed being sealed by the Holy Spirit as something Abraham did not receive you misspoke??

 

Its good you see the dilemma for the Calvinist position you hold. You see and understand the Holy Spirit indwelling is regeneration/born of God. You see this did not happen until after the cross of Christ. But you still want to hold to the misconception that those pre-cross were regenerated. It cannot be both. The answer is to abandon the idea that those before the cross of Christ were regenerated and understand from scripture that this is the reason they had to wait in Paradise until Jesus led captivity captive.

 

Tit 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

All are saved the exact same way brother, as described by Tit 3:5 - "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"

Why do you think Abraham and the OT believers had to wait in Paradise and rejoiced to see Christ's day? Why do you think Jesus led captivity captive?

There is not still a mystery. Paul makes this clear, you need to read the letter to the Ephesians, here is one snippet....."And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"......
"And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,"

The mystery was hid in God, and now revealed to us through the Apostles. The full salvation plan revealed;
(1) Faith: Abraham believed God.
(2) The Atonement/Cross of Christ.
(3) Regeneration/Rebirth of the spirit after the glorification of Jesus Christ, captivity led captive.
(4) Regeneration/Resurrection of the body during the rapture.

You are very close brother! Keep studying!