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Failing the Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats

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Steven Yeadon

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This thread has a simple premise:

What happens if a person declaring Christ as Lord and Savior is not able to pass the Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats at death? Does that prove they never had saving faith? I provide the relevant bible passage below.


I ask to understand the BB's opinions on this issue.

I also ask because contribution to Christian causes of time or money tends to be a low priority for many American Christians, especially for those who do not go to church. Barna Research has found some additional startling facts on Christian giving to Christian causes (https://biblicalstewardship.net/statistical-research-on-stewardship/).

I seriously wonder if those that mainly come to church on Sunday, or stay away from church, and do not dedicate themselves to some service to others with their time or money, may need to be reached among us. An evangelism challenge I have been mulling over for a long time now.


The Sheep and the Goats (Matthew 25:31-46)
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

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You have to be more specific in your question. I would have to have the name of the person, and a complete bio, of someone who failed to pass the sheep/goat judgment before I could make such a determination.
 
InTheLight

InTheLight

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And an Ancestry report and DNA test results. A inner cheek swabbing at the very least.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
S

Steven Yeadon

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TCassidy said:
You have to be more specific in your question. I would have to have the name of the person, and a complete bio, of someone who failed to pass the sheep/goat judgment before I could make such a determination.
Click to expand...

Can I then ask what you believe a failing bio looks like?

Or am I simply approaching the subject of whether people professing to be Christians are genuine in the wrong way? I mean, after your post I realize that the apostles practiced church discipline instead of testing faith. Maybe what I really need to do is understand church discipline?
 
S

Steven Yeadon

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TCassidy said:
Yes
Click to expand...

How should I approach the subject of whether people professing to be Christian have genuine saving faith? I now believe I screwed that subject up terribly.

As for a bio, I believe that question alone shows me where the debate is. It seems to be a debate of what exactly constitutes failure.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
To answer directly, if Jesus cast someone out, then you can be certain they never had saving faith. "Many" will deceive themselves into thinking they are saved and will point Jesus to things they have said or done as proof. Strange, imho, that you seem to be looking for those sorts of things as proof in this life, when they don't serve as proof in the next.

God has given every Christian a mark that seals them for eternity in heaven. That mark is indwelling Holy Spirit.

Holy Spirit cannot measured by good works nor manipulated for our benefit.

As for the second question, how do you bring up in conversation whether a professing Christion has genuine faith...imho, you shouldn't.

You cannot possibly know if Holy Spirit indwells. The very best you can do is make a judgment on whether their behavior is consistent with a profession of faith, and if not..church discipline is in order.

Caution!!! Jesus makes it clear most of us have our hands full making sure our own walk is consistent with our profession of faith. Best not to judge with all those logs in our eyes and so forth...

This obviously concerns you. I hope you find the right answer.

Peace to you
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
A little side story. I once went to church with a man who was convinced that if a Christian didn't cry at salvation they weren't really saved. In his mind, that was the proof. If you cried at salvation, that proved genuine repentance, genuine salvation.

He would ask members if they cried at salvation. If they said "no", he treated them as unsaved. He would "witness" to them, telling them they needed to repent and accept Christ as savior.

If they told him they were already children of God, he would argue their faith wasn't real, because they didn't cry at salvation.

It became a real problem.
 
TCassidy

TCassidy

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Steven Yeadon said:
How should I approach the subject of whether people professing to be Christian have genuine saving faith?
Click to expand...
By judging others less and looking to yourself more.
Philippians 2:12 "So then, my beloved, even as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." :)
 
Aaron

Aaron

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Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them,

I never knew you:

depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt. 7:22-23
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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Steven Yeadon said:
the subject of whether people professing to be Christian have genuine saving faith?
Click to expand...

Peruse the scripture you referenced and see if there's any mention of genuine/authentic/sincere/bona fide faith. No! It's genuine/authentic/sincere/bona fide WORKS that we are judged by:

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mt 25

It's the same 'works' to which James was referring:

27 Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. Ja 1
15 If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food,
16 and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit?
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

...and the same judgement by works that Paul was referring

5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation,
9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
10 But glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
11 for there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

...and the same judgement by works that Christ was referring to:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice,
29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. Jn 5
 
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HankD

HankD

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Works because the Holy Spirit engenders works and behavior in our lives with which other believers can identify.

Its the best we have as we cannot look into a persons heart as does God.

Here is a variation of that concept from James.

James 3
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
 
M

Martin Marprelate

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Steven Yeadon said:
What happens if a person declaring Christ as Lord and Savior is not able to pass the Judgment of the Sheep and the Goats at death? Does that prove they never had saving faith?
Click to expand...
Justification is by faith, by faith alone, without the works of the law (John 3:16; Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:3-7 etc., etc.).
However, true faith, the faith that saves, always results in action (Hebrews 11 passim). When one has passed from death to life, there will be a change. Sometimes there is great change, sometimes smaller, but there will always be some (Parable of the talents). If there is no change, there must be a question as to whether one has actually passed from death to life.

Robert Murray M'Cheyne said that for every look at self there should be ten looks at Jesus, and I'm sure that's true, but there is a call to look at self (2 Corinthians 13:5), not so that one can try harder to make oneself into a Christian, but so that one can cry out to God for grace.

Finally, the call is for self- examination. We are not to compare ourselves to others (Romans 14:4), for that will make us either proud or depressed.
 
S

Steven Yeadon

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You guys are right. I need to work on my own walk, and worry about planks in my own eye before specks in others. When my walk is all it can be, I can gently remove specks from the eyes of others with confidence.

I will post new threads more immediately tied to my own journey for a while.
 
kyredneck

kyredneck

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Martin (following the Reformed script):
Martin Marprelate said:
Justification is by faith, by faith alone
Click to expand...

The Bible:
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2

Faith alone:
19 Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. Ja 2
 
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