Israel’s Restoration?

[1689Dave]

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)

The single event which none but the Father knows the time of is the resurrection on the last day. And if we consider believers in Christ as biblical Israel, the resurrection speaks of Israel’s restoration into the New Heavens and earth.

Acts also places this on the last day.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19–21)

And making sure this refers to the last day and end of the world, Matthew says;

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

So while many look for a physical 1000 yearlong kingdom in this evil world, God’s restoration of Israel speaks of the new heavens and earth coming about on the last day when as Peter says;

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)

 

[Covenanter]

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)

That question indicated a misunderstanding of Jesus' teaching of the kingdom of Israel, even though he had spent the previous weeks "speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God." Seems they thought he had omitted teaching about restoring Israel. The needed the Holy Spirit to give them understanding, & that took years for them to understand ".... the mystery of Christ) 5 which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 that the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel."

The single event which none but the Father knows the time of is the resurrection on the last day. And if we consider believers in Christ as biblical Israel, the resurrection speaks of Israel’s restoration into the New Heavens and earth.

Acts also places this on the last day.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19–21)

We tend to think that it's common knowledge that Israel rejected the Apostles' preaching, was destroyed in AD 70, & has continued under judgment awaiting restoration.
However -
The people of Israel welcomed the Gospel & repented in their thousands throughout the Acts period. Vastly more than Elijah's 7,000. Zechariah prophesies that 1/3 of the people will be saved (Zec. 13), while John sees 144,000 firstfruits of Israel. (Rev. 7 & 14.)

And making sure this refers to the last day and end of the world, Matthew says;

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

Most fail to divide Matthew 24 at that point, as if the preceding verses applying to "this generation" that rejected Jesus applied to the Israelite race until the last day.

So while many look for a physical 1000 yearlong kingdom in this evil world, God’s restoration of Israel speaks of the new heavens and earth coming about on the last day when as Peter says;

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)

Peter specifically rejects the popular understanding of Rev. 20 of a future millennium & says it is an indefinite Gospel period during which God is longsuffering allowing time for sinners to repent. Seems John had his visions before Peter died.

For the Jews who rejected their Messiah - "this generation" the day of the Lord was fast approaching. I'll continue in another post by quoting what I wrote before.

 

[Covenanter]

Look at 2 Peter 3 - Peter is specifically referring to scoffers of the last days - which began at Pentecost. Jesus had repeatedly warned this generation that he would come in judgment on those who had rejected him.

Note: And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
NOT of some future generation 1,000 or more years away. Them, this generation.

Mat. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.​

Now the scoffers are claiming to be vindicated in their unbelief - "our fathers are dead, despite what Jesus said, & our temple worship continues. Jesus is seen to be a false prophet."

Sinners had 100 years' warning in the days of Noah. (2,500 years before) Their unbelief did not save them - the flood come & they perished. Peter is asserting: "You think you're safe because your fathers have died without seeing the prophesied destruction. By your scoffing you are owning your fathers' sins" :

Mat. 23:31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt.33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?​

It is possible to read Jesus' final coming for resurrection & judgment into the chapter, that is what is ahead for us, but we're considering the situation in Peter's day:

The tabernacle & temple were given as a sign of the God of heaven living with his people - as Solomon acknowledged, the dwelling-place of God - heaven on earth. 1 Kings 8:27-30 Jesus called the temple "my house." But, as he left it, he called it "your house." What was provided for man to meet with God was condemned to destruction by fire because of their rejection of the owner of the house.

The scoffers would perish as surely as the sinners of Noah's day. Don't despise God's patience - the day of the Lord will come. And what are the elements? Paul tells us:

Gal. 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
......
9 But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?​

The elements are NOT the components making up the planet, nor is the earth the planet. The elements are all the trappings of the Old Covenant - temple, priesthood, sacrifices, etc, and the earth is the land of Israel.

Peter is reminding his readers of the Lord's prophecy: within a generation the temple & everything associated with it, & the land of Israel, will be utterly destroyed. Don't join the scoffers Repent!:

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
​

And you, dear Reader, do not begin to say that as the coming of the Lord did take place exactly according to Jesus' warning, then underlined by Peter, that you can live in sin without fear of judgment. As if Jesus did not come according to your understanding of his warning, so he did not come.

No! No! No! The judgment of the flood came in Noah's day. The judgment on the generation that rejected their Messiah came in AD 70. The final judgment will come in God's time. You needn't wait 1,000 years, nor even one day; for at your death you will face certain judgment. Take warning:

11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.
​

Live in sin, facing the wrath of God, or repent & live with the glorious hope of the new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

 

[HankD]

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

There are no difficulties for God.

 

[Covenanter]

That post was is in -
What do Preterists believe about 2 Peter 3

 

[1689Dave]

There are no difficulties for God.

God has no difficulties but those who try to push scripture interpretations do.

 

[HankD]

God has no difficulties but those who try to push scripture interpretations do.

Depends.

 

[Yeshua1]

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)

The single event which none but the Father knows the time of is the resurrection on the last day. And if we consider believers in Christ as biblical Israel, the resurrection speaks of Israel’s restoration into the New Heavens and earth.

Acts also places this on the last day.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19–21)

And making sure this refers to the last day and end of the world, Matthew says;

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

So while many look for a physical 1000 yearlong kingdom in this evil world, God’s restoration of Israel speaks of the new heavens and earth coming about on the last day when as Peter says;

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)

Except Paul and Jesus NEVER stated that God was done dealing with national israel, but put that on hold until the end of this age!

 

[HankD]

Except Paul and Jesus NEVER stated that God was done dealing with national israel, but put that on hold until the end of this age!

IMO the 144,000 will be called out of national Israel. The promises to Israel are to redeemed Israel (not all Israel is Israel).

 

[1689Dave]

Except Paul and Jesus NEVER stated that God was done dealing with national israel, but put that on hold until the end of this age!

If you read Romans 11, God only grafts the broken off back into Israel by faith in Christ. There is no other way.

 

[Revmitchell]

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)

The single event which none but the Father knows the time of is the resurrection on the last day. And if we consider believers in Christ as biblical Israel, the resurrection speaks of Israel’s restoration into the New Heavens and earth.

Acts also places this on the last day.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19–21)

And making sure this refers to the last day and end of the world, Matthew says;

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

So while many look for a physical 1000 yearlong kingdom in this evil world, God’s restoration of Israel speaks of the new heavens and earth coming about on the last day when as Peter says;

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)

Since we do not know the day of the rapture it is impossible for anyone to claim to know the dates of the rest. Just because we know of events leading up to it does not in any way know the times or the seasons. Your premise if faulty.

 

[1689Dave]

Since we do not know the day of the rapture it is impossible for anyone to claim to know the dates of the rest. Just because we know of events leading up to it does not in any way know the times or the seasons. Your premise if faulty.

If the pre-trib rapture were true, any then living would know the restoration of Israel would happen 7 years later. And only the Father knows this.

 

[HankD]

If the pre-trib rapture were true, any then living would know the restoration of Israel would happen 7 years later. And only the Father knows this.

IMO there seems to be a movement away from the pre-trib rapture in the overall splintering of the dispensational theory of the last days..

Questions like: Will the church go through the tribulation had cutsie answers like - will the bridegroom beat up the bride before the wedding?
Answer: No but perhaps the Tribulation is God's method of dividing the sheep from the goats.

Personally - as a former pre-tribber I am now undecided.

 

[Covenanter]

Except Paul and Jesus NEVER stated that God was done dealing with national israel, but put that on hold until the end of this age!

You are seriously mistaken.

Paul said the Jews were & are welcome to repent & come to Jesus for salvation. No-one who comes in faith will be refused.

Nor was Jesus wrong when he said to the Jews -

Mat. 21:43 43 ‘Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.​

which was fulfilled by the redeemed believers formerly Gentiles, strangers -

1 Peter 2:8 ..... They stumble because they disobey the message – which is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.​

 

[Covenanter]

IMO the 144,000 will be called out of national Israel. The promises to Israel are to redeemed Israel (not all Israel is Israel).

The 144,000 are firstfruits, who were redeemed, sealed & protected from the wrath against this generation.

Rev. 14:And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 and they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

7:And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.​

Revelation was written for its readers, John's companions in tribulation. It applies to the first C Christians, before the destruction. Jesus prophesies their safety & protection from the four winds -

Mat. 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.​

Clearly not referring to the heaven up above, gathering dead believers, but the land & people under judgment. The signs of God dwelling on earth with his people - the temple and Jerusalem - was about to be destroyed, & true believers were led safely from the city.

And they join the great multitude of redeemed -

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude ....​

 

[HankD]

You are seriously mistaken.

Paul said the Jews were & are welcome to repent & come to Jesus for salvation. No-one who comes in faith will be refused.

Nor was Jesus wrong when he said to the Jews -

Mat. 21:43 43 ‘Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.​

No of course He wasn't wrong, you know that - He also prophesied that the Gentile dominance would have its limitation:

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

​

 

[Covenanter]

No of course He wasn't wrong, you know that - He also prophesied that the Gentile dominance would have its limitation:

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

​

Do those references say that Israel will then be restored by the return of Jews to the promised land?

Are the times of the Gentiles & the fulness of the Gentiles defined in Scripture?

Is there any New Covenant prophecy that "Jerusalem that now is" will become an earthly focus for "Israel" aka the redeemed people of God

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.​

Note how Paul summarises Romans -

15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. 11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. 12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. 13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.​

I see nothing in the New Covenant Scriptures to interpret the promises to Israel as referring to the carnal nation in the Middle East, nor as European Jews claiming Abrahamic descent.

 

[HankD]

Do those references say that Israel will then be restored by the return of Jews to the promised land?

Are the times of the Gentiles & the fulness of the Gentiles defined in Scripture?

Is there any New Covenant prophecy that "Jerusalem that now is" will become an earthly focus for "Israel" aka the redeemed people of God

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.​

Note how Paul summarises Romans -

15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: 9 and that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. 10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. 11 And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. 12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. 13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.​

I see nothing in the New Covenant Scriptures to interpret the promises to Israel as referring to the carnal nation in the Middle East, nor as European Jews claiming Abrahamic descent.

I said earlier that the promises to Israel are to redeemed Israel which in the future shall be called out of secular Israel.

The are virtually hundreds of unfulfilled promises to Israel which no amount of allegorical redefinition can satisfy.

 

[Yeshua1]

If you read Romans 11, God only grafts the broken off back into Israel by faith in Christ. There is no other way.

yes, and those are the natural Jews that are to be saved at the time of the Second Coming of Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

IMO there seems to be a movement away from the pre-trib rapture in the overall splintering of the dispensational theory of the last days..

Questions like: Will the church go through the tribulation had cutsie answers like - will the bridegroom beat up the bride before the wedding?
Answer: No but perhaps the Tribulation is God's method of dividing the sheep from the goats.

Personally - as a former pre-tribber I am now undecided.

I have changed to being Historical premil now, as iy seems that the second coming and rapture are describing same event...